Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence

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bluewally said:
But we were playing a fairly low level of opposition in most of those games. Carlisle, Newcastle, Bournemouth (who made 10 changes for the cup game).

I really feel this recent defensive improvement is a result of a favourable run of fixtures rather than any significant change.
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Possibly but we can't assume that until we've seen evidence that's true.
 
chicoazul said:
It really wasn't. He replaced Lennon with a player who was meant to fill a similar position but with fresher legs and be an outlet ball while stopping their defence moving ten yards forward and squeezing the play.

It wasn't the reason we got beat. Hysteria picked up on in in hindsight mate.
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Not really. Try watching the game again (I did it because I hate myself already), and think about it - Lennon closes down and drops into midfield loads to do so, chases down full backs and deep sitting players, which enables us to counter more effectively. Then puts on Niasse and takes him out, who instantly went up to Lukaku and was glued there for the 15 or however many minutes he was on, not doing even 1% of what Lennon was doing.

We had Barry on the bench for crying out loud. Here's a radical thought - Barry on for Lennon, Niasse for Lukaku. Still defensively sound, as we've got actual midfielders on, and Niasse gets a run out and might get to chase down a clearance or something upfront and earn us a foul or two (he did actually get one of them as well).
 
chicoazul said:
It really wasn't. He replaced Lennon with a player who was meant to fill a similar position but with fresher legs and be an outlet ball while stopping their defence moving ten yards forward and squeezing the play.

It wasn't the reason we got beat. Hysteria picked up on in in hindsight mate.
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A player that fans were giving him stick for not playing more. It didn't feel like the right one but I'm more wrong than right on subs and I understand what his thinking might have been.
But all of a sudden a player that's cost 13 million, or something, is a joke of a player to fit in with a 'Martinez must go' scenario
 

chicoazul said:
It really wasn't. He replaced Lennon with a player who was meant to fill a similar position but with fresher legs and be an outlet ball while stopping their defence moving ten yards forward and squeezing the play.

It wasn't the reason we got beat. Hysteria picked up on in in hindsight mate.
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He replaced lennon with a lad who hadn't even played 15 minutes of premier league football
 
oldblue said:
Exactly. People having passionate opinions is one thing but it's getting to the point where positives like our attacking play and talented squad are being used against the personal responsible for them.
Defence needs to improve but are people sincere in wanting this if they can't look back over the last handful of games and say it has apart from ten minutes with a side flat out after playing with ten men
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Our attacking play should be great as it's all he concentrates on. Saturday proved that with the sub. His past statement were he says he is not concerned with conceding goals proves that. The most goals conceded at home proves that. It's not even individual mistakes anymore, it's the style we play. First season he had Stubbs still drilling the defence and it showed. Since then he has surrounded himself with ex-attacking players and an ex-Wrexham defender and we wonder why we are so poor at defending when there is nobody there to make it better.
 
Ashtonian said:
See the way i look at it is we keep looking at the season game by game and glossing over things. Last year after we secured our safety in march (?!) i said i would give him until christmas. When christmas came, i was happy to hold my hands up and say fair enough, there is improvement made here. Its only when you step away after West ham in my mind, that you see that actually it is the emporers new clothes situation. The football improved but not the results, and the result shaven't improved on that front since he joined wigan. He obviously has his philosophy and has said many times he won't waver from it, and yet it doesn't work. It has been said many times but 2 -3 goals to the good and you have nothing to show for it means there was no point in having those three goals to begin with. One of the highest scorers in the league, yet swansea/bournemoth/palace/west brom are are peers in the league?

It just paints the picture of a manager who has not got a clue how to take the step beyond his initial ideas, we are close to being a great team, but that is down to the players not the manager. It is only when he gets involved does the team suffer!
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But he's bought and picked most of those players.
Things really do need to be taken in isolation for most of the time. If we have been unlucky in ten matches then we have been unlucky in ten matches.
There's really no such thing as laws of average. It's actually possible to be unlucky. Not saying it's all bad luck but we do have to take each game in context or we won't see a bigger picture
 
willo30 said:
Our attacking play should be great as it's all he concentrates on. Saturday proved that with the sub. His past statement were he says he is not concerned with conceding goals proves that. The most goals conceded at home proves that. It's not even individual mistakes anymore, it's the style we play. First season he had Stubbs still drilling the defence and it showed. Since then he has surrounded himself with ex-attacking players and an ex-Wrexham defender and we wonder why we are so poor at defending when there is nobody there to make it better.
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In principle I'm happy with the idea that all we have to do is score more than the opposition. And he definitely concentrates more on attack which may prove to be impractical in the long term but for the time being it's not causing as much damage as many are making out. We're not flirting with relegation and are unlikely to be with this squad. Get the defence better, not perfect, just better, and we're a top four side.
 

oldblue said:
But he's bought and picked most of those players.
Things really do need to be taken in isolation for most of the time. If we have been unlucky in ten matches then we have been unlucky in ten matches.
There's really no such thing as laws of average. It's actually possible to be unlucky. Not saying it's all bad luck but we do have to take each game in context or we won't see a bigger picture
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The bigger picture though isn't just 10 matches, which is the issue.

In martinez's premier league career he has only had one fluke season, the first one here.

I guess i can only repeat it but he is making the same mistakes here as he did with wigan. Except he has a far superior squad, a massive budget in comparison and yet it is weilding the same results as before. 12 months ago we asked if this season was a fluke, a moyes 17th season, well now we know that it isn't down to just the luck of the draw, in all the patterns in his career, Roberto is the only thing that is features in them all.
 
daz4matty said:
No way my friend it would be back to the walter smith relegation battles
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calm down please. we aren´t getting relegated or going to be in a relegation battle next year if he stays another year.

i understand people want him out but what we have now is one poster going to extremes in defending him and a bunch of others damning him no matter what.

bit of balance please
 
oldblue said:
In principle I'm happy with the idea that all we have to do is score more than the opposition. And he definitely concentrates more on attack which may prove to be impractical in the long term but for the time being it's not causing as much damage as many are making out. We're not flirting with relegation and are unlikely to be with this squad. Get the defence better, not perfect, just better, and we're a top four side.
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That's the crux of it though. Have we seen anything in him that he can do this. Not the odd couple of games but on a consistent basis like his first season when someone else was drilling it. This is his problem where it's his way and his way only. I don't even think he'd entertain the thought of getting a new coach in as he believes he doesn't need it. I think he'd walk if it was ever forced on him.
 
bicycleheader said:
calm down please. we aren´t getting relegated or going to be in a relegation battle next year if he stays another year.

i understand people want him out but what we have now is one poster going to extremes in defending him and a bunch of others damning him no matter what.

bit of balance please
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We are going further down each season it won't end pretty keeping him.
 
chicoazul said:
No it's not. It just means we have to fix our defensive third through personnel or tactics and we should have a very dangerous team.
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How long have we needed to fix that for though? Getting on for two years now? He's never going to fix it. A serious manager would have by now
 

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