From the fence

[BlueToff]

Clinical finishing. One touch passing. Most importantly team defense that rarely loses shape and mental acuteness

They didn't keep a clean sheet until late October mate.

Leicester are doing brilliantly and i'm chuffed for them but it's been a case of right man, right team and the right time - as all Ranieri has done is make little changes and given a team that was already high on confidence after going on a superb run at the end of last season a bit more guile and experience.

There's no guarantee he could do it anywhere else or repeat the feat next season - as much as I hope that they go onto win the title.

 

[Caolam]

Be careful what you wish for.

Take over doesn't always equate to success and loads of money.

It's down to the players (and yes, manager) first and foremost. If these players are as good as we all believe them to be, then it can't just be the fault of Martinez that we aren't higher up.

I would have thought that if the players are that good then it was the fault of the manager that the team isn't higher up the league.

 

[Skeleton Crew]

They didn't keep a clean sheet until late October mate.

Leicester are doing brilliantly and i'm chuffed for them but it's been a case of right man, right team and the right time - as all Ranieri has done is make little changes and given a team that was already high on confidence after going on a superb run at the end of last season a bit more guile and experience.

There's no guarantee he could do it anywhere else or repeat the feat next season - as much as I hope that they go onto win the title.

Correct on the clean sheet stat.
...

But giving up 1 a game when you are scoring in buckets isnt so bad. give up a mistake then tighten up the defense during a game is good coaching and mental game. We are still looking for our true grit.

 

[BlueToff]

I would have thought that if the players are that good then it was the fault of the manager that the team isn't higher up the league.

How? The manager selects the team and implement the tactics. Tactics that see us create lots and lots of chances that if we finished off even half of them we'd have won loads of games this season.

The manager, for all his defensive faults, also isn't the one who personally switches off at the back post at a corner, or gives away a stupid penalty etc etc.

Martinez does so much up to a point and that is what he is responsible for. The players, if they are as good as we all think they are, need to start showing some consistency.

 

[BlueToff]

Correct on the clean sheet stat.
...

But giving up 1 a game when you are scoring in buckets isnt so bad. give up a mistake then tighten up the defense during a game is good coaching and mental game. We are still looking for our true grit.

Oh I agree, Ranieri is a good manager and he's proven that in what is turning out to be an amazing season.

That doesn't equate to meaning if we had Ranieri we'd be top of the league though.

Leicester are on an amazing run and long may it continue but we haven't seen anything like it since we got in the CL back in 2004/05. That's how rare it is, and it's down to certain other factors as well such as the inconsistent form of ourselves, the RS, Utd and Chelsea.

 

[Caolam]

How? The manager selects the team and implement the tactics. Tactics that see us create lots and lots of chances that if we finished off even half of them we'd have won loads of games this season.

The manager, for all his defensive faults, also isn't the one who personally switches off at the back post at a corner, or gives away a stupid penalty etc etc.

Martinez does so much up to a point and that is what he is responsible for. The players, if they are as good as we all think they are, need to start showing some consistency.

The manager works with the team day in day out. If there is a problem with finishing then he introduces drills which sharpen up on this issue. If the players he has aren't capable of finishing then replace them.
If there is an issue with concentration once again the manager has to take steps to address it.
Martinez has been in place for almost three years, he needs to have a regime in place were these issues are dealt with.
We can have the odd game were things don't go right but not week in week out.

 

[abelard]

Imagine Ranieri with our squad...
What have Leicester been getting right that we cannot do?

Clinical finishing. One touch passing. Most importantly team defense that rarely loses shape and mental acuteness

Defensive organization I can understand, but how do you figure it's Martinez's fault that we hit the bar or missed open looks so often against WBA? (which this post seems primarily in reaction to). Is Ranieri just that much more cosmically-gifted a striker-whisperer? The manager is now entirely to blame for luck itself too? Or was he undermining Cleverley's Qi, causing him to manage only to hit the frame? Would Barkley, a young, learning player, not have sailed it over the bar in the dying minutes had only his balding spiritual sherpa cooed the mantra - "be more clinical Ross" - with more divine force? We're holding Martinez accountable for the players' very mental states now? How dare he not yet have mastered telekinesis, portaled into their souls, and psychically willed them to avert human error!

Lukaku has 20 goals this year. He's second in the premier league. He has obviously improved enormously under Martinez, who has had the courage to keep playing him even as the dimmer, more impetuous supporters continue to write him off and shriek indignantly at him for poor first touches.We score goals in abundance.

Now that football is on TV, half-witted cynical pundits sell the game to casual supporters by promoting it as a cartoon/Pro Wrestling showdown between managers, whose teams, no more than reflections of their psychic aura, are utterly under their control. Anything that happens on the pitch can be and is retroactively explained as mere manifestation of their respective personality attributes and defects. You can measure how much management a person has actually done by how much they parrot this notion.

Ranieri... If we had so much as been rumoured to have been after Ranieri this summer, we'd have burned Finch Farm in protest. He'll turn Everton into Greece!!! It logically follows that we too will lose to the Faroe Islands! For eternity!

We could learn from what actually happened to Leicester, but we won't.

 

[BlueToff]

The manager works with the team day in day out. If there is a problem with finishing then he introduces drills which sharpen up on this issue. If the players he has aren't capable of finishing then replace them.
If there is an issue with concentration once again the manager has to take steps to address it.
Martinez has been in place for almost three years, he needs to have a regime in place were these issues are dealt with.
We can have the odd game were things don't go right but not week in week out.

The players he has are obviously capable of finishing as we've scored over 60 goals in all comps this season.

It's ultimately been in certain games like Swansea (the Coleman miss) and WBA that the finishing has cost us.

And it's not week-in-week out that things go wrong, proved by the fact we'd just won three games on the trot 3-0.

Of course Martinez is responsible as well but the players must step up. We know they're capable of it because they've shown us with some of the displays this season.

Three years is nothing, either. It's only now becoming something because of the immediacy from the media and panicking fans.

I'm confident we've turned a corner and that we are capable of ending this season well.

I'm quietly confident we can keep the vast majority of our key players here for next season and that will be the time to properly judge.

First year - class.

Second year - Bar the Europa League, poor attacking on the whole and sloppy defending.

Third year - Some brilliant displays and when we've got it right we're unplayable. Some sloppy defensive errors combined with bad luck and on occasion an in-ability to make our dominance count (down to the players), especially at home, has cost us - but it's far from over yet.

So, I believe we've shown obvious signs of improvement and I'm willing to wait because personally I think he's the right man for the job.

 

[BlueToff]

Defensive organization I can understand, but how do you figure it's Martinez's fault that we hit the bar or missed open looks so often against WBA? (which this post seems primarily in reaction to). Is Ranieri just that much more cosmically-gifted a striker-whisperer? The manager is now entirely to blame for luck itself too? Or was he undermining Cleverley's Qi, causing him to manage only to hit the frame? Would Barkley, a young, learning player, not have sailed it over the bar in the dying minutes had only his balding spiritual sherpa cooed the mantra - "be more clinical Ross" - with more divine force? We're holding Martinez accountable for the players' very mental states now? How dare he not yet have mastered telekinesis, portaled into their souls, and psychically willed them to avert human error!

Lukaku has 20 goals this year. He's second in the premier league. He has obviously improved enormously under Martinez, who has had the courage to keep playing him even as the dimmer, more impetuous supporters continue to write him off and shriek indignantly at him for poor first touches.

Now that football is on TV, half-witted cynical pundits sell the game to casual supporters by promoting it as a cartoon/Pro Wrestling showdown between managers, whose teams, no more than reflections of their psychic aura, are utterly under their control. Anything that happens on the pitch can be and is retroactively explained as mere manifestation of their respective personality attributes and defects. You can measure how much management a person has actually done by how much they parrot this notion.

Ranieri... If we had so much as been rumoured to have been after Ranieri this summer, we'd have burned Finch Farm in protest. He'll turn Everton into Greece!!! It logically follows that we too will lose to the Faroe Islands! For eternity!

We could learn from what actually happened to Leicester, but we won't.

Fantastic post.

Media fuelled dim-wittedness has lead to this immediacy and 'end of the world' feeling amongst a lot of fans.

That isn't to say it's not frustrating as obviously it is, very much so. But it isn't all down to Martinez.

I don't want Everton to be a club that sacks a promising manager that has now built a side that we all claim is our best in years, because so far down to a combination of reasons (some in his control, some out of his control) we are not living up to our 'perceived' potential.

Martinez was entirely spot on when he said this side isn't under-achieving, as so far it's achieved nothing to base that on.

We can be better, and we have shown signs (and enough of them) this season that we're getting there.

 

[chicoazul]

Now that football is on TV, half-witted cynical pundits sell the game to casual supporters by promoting it as a cartoon/Pro Wrestling showdown between managers, whose teams, no more than reflections of their psychic aura, are utterly under their control. Anything that happens on the pitch can be and is retroactively explained as mere manifestation of their respective personality attributes and defects. You can measure how much management a person has actually done by how much they parrot this notion.

This is magnificent.

 

[Arteta2391]

Be careful what you wish for.

Take over doesn't always equate to success and loads of money.

It's down to the players (and yes, manager) first and foremost. If these players are as good as we all believe them to be, then it can't just be the fault of Martinez that we aren't higher up.

Sure I get your point.

Look at Man City

that's a positive story thus far.

 

[Caolam]

The players he has are obviously capable of finishing as we've scored over 60 goals in all comps this season.

It's ultimately been in certain games like Swansea (the Coleman miss) and WBA that the finishing has cost us.

And it's not week-in-week out that things go wrong, proved by the fact we'd just won three games on the trot 3-0.

Of course Martinez is responsible as well but the players must step up. We know they're capable of it because they've shown us with some of the displays this season.

Three years is nothing, either. It's only now becoming something because of the immediacy from the media and panicking fans.

I'm confident we've turned a corner and that we are capable of ending this season well.

I'm quietly confident we can keep the vast majority of our key players here for next season and that will be the time to properly judge.

First year - class.

Second year - Bar the Europa League, poor attacking on the whole and sloppy defending.

Third year - Some brilliant displays and when we've got it right we're unplayable. Some sloppy defensive errors combined with bad luck and on occasion an in-ability to make our dominance count (down to the players), especially at home, has cost us - but it's far from over yet.

So, I believe we've shown obvious signs of improvement and I'm willing to wait because personally I think he's the right man for the job.

I hope you are right. I want Roberto Martinez to be our manager and to be successful. I just can't see where the optimism is coming from. Last season we won 12 league games, we blamed the Europa League for our bad league form. This year we have won 8 games, if we keep our win ratio going we will win 12 games again and no Europa League to blame.
Martinez has a record of winning just under one third of the Premiership games he plays.
Everything seems to suggest about 12 wins this season which will not get us top half.
I don't want to fall out with anyone, in fact I want the supporters of Martinez to be able to quote my posts back to me at the end of the season when we have won 8 of the remaining games and finished 6/7 th. My question of the minute for people who are optimistic about Martinez is "What do you consider to be an unacceptable position come the end of this season". That's probably a thread on it's own.

 

[BlueToff]

Sure I get your point.

Look at Man City

that's a positive story thus far.

It is. But for every Chelsea or City...

Look at Blackburn, look at Leeds, look at Nottingham Forest, look at Birmingham City, now even Villa...

 

[BlueToff]

I hope you are right. I want Roberto Martinez to be our manager and to be successful. I just can't see where the optimism is coming from. Last season we won 12 league games, we blamed the Europa League for our bad league form. This year we have won 8 games, if we keep our win ratio going we will win 12 games again and no Europa League to blame.
Martinez has a record of winning just under one third of the Premiership games he plays.
Everything seems to suggest about 12 wins this season which will not get us top half.
I don't want to fall out with anyone, in fact I want the supporters of Martinez to be able to quote my posts back to me at the end of the season when we have won 8 of the remaining games and finished 6/7 th. My question of the minute for people who are optimistic about Martinez is "What do you consider to be an unacceptable position come the end of this season". That's probably a thread on it's own.

Personally I never blamed the EL. It was a lazy excuse and I said as much at the time. It boiled down to teams figuring out a way to play against us.

This season, Martinez has changed that, bar a few examples (Watford and WBA at home spring to mind).

Last season our attacking play was slow, now it's a lot better and incisive and players like Barkley and Lukaku have really stepped up.

I'm not wanting to fall out, but I think we've got cause for optimism when we hammered two teams (one of which is supposedly what we should be striving to be) in the last three games 3-0. We hammered WBA but they defended well and the players - in this instance - didn't find the finishing touch.

My answer to your question would be 12th or below - depending on how we do in the cup.

Now, I won't particularly be happy with anything outside of the top 7/8, but I would accept it and, as long as we can keep this squad together - which under RM I think we can, then it'll be onto next season.

But I'm not thinking about that as we, as fans and a team, need to take it game by game and just see where we end up. Whatever happens, I'd like us to re-assess in the summer either way, but I think RM has shown he is learning - though admittedly it may have taken longer than some people would want to.

The players, likewise, are still learning, though back to my original point, if they were so good, they would be able to turn the draws into wins etc. - Martinez can't take all of the blame for that.

 

[Caolam]

Personally I never blamed the EL. It was a lazy excuse and I said as much at the time. It boiled down to teams figuring out a way to play against us.

This season, Martinez has changed that, bar a few examples (Watford and WBA at home spring to mind).

Last season our attacking play was slow, now it's a lot better and incisive and players like Barkley and Lukaku have really stepped up.

I'm not wanting to fall out, but I think we've got cause for optimism when we hammered two teams (one of which is supposedly what we should be striving to be) in the last three games 3-0. We hammered WBA but they defended well and the players - in this instance - didn't find the finishing touch.

My answer to your question would be 12th or below - depending on how we do in the cup.

Now, I won't particularly be happy with anything outside of the top 7/8, but I would accept it and, as long as we can keep this squad together - which under RM I think we can, then it'll be onto next season.

But I'm not thinking about that as we, as fans and a team, need to take it game by game and just see where we end up. Whatever happens, I'd like us to re-assess in the summer either way, but I think RM has shown he is learning - though admittedly it may have taken longer than some people would want to.

The players, likewise, are still learning, though back to my original point, if they were so good, they would be able to turn the draws into wins etc. - Martinez can't take all of the blame for that.

My last word on this is that my pessimism makes me think that if the team doesn't show significant improvement from last season and show the potential to go on and win something then it will be very difficult to hang unto our better players.