Roberto Martinez discussion

[Little Ralphy]

Agree.
But the point of debate was more what is the alternative to buying these younger players?
Within our pay structure, the likes of Townsend/Rhodes/Adebayor/Shelvey are the alternative. Proven (for the most part) 6or7/10 players who know the league. Every now and then they will have a very good game, but more often than note they will hit the "decent" performance level.

So the choice is:

Continue to buy and progress the likes of Lukaku, Deulofeu, Stones, Barkley - genuine top talents who will have days of 5 or 6/10 because of the inconsistency of youth but will also have lots of good days where their talent shines through. Yes we won't keep all of them but as long as the side is progressing and we are replacing them with better (more experienced) players then we are on a the right path.

or.

We bolster the squad with the likes of the above who have little or no re-sale value and will guide us to the coveted 7th place trophy. We've done this approach before, remember, under Moyes (not that he did this by choice, it must be said).

We cannot afford 28 year old Lukakus. So it really is a choice between the two. Youth with their fearless approach but infuriating inconsistency or consistent average footballers.

I'm not sure anyone is actually debating the policy of buying young. I think people are saying that's not the excuse for the poor performances.

To put it simply, I think anyone who has watched any of our games must see that we're far too open and allow the opposition to advance up the pitch and create chances far too easily. That's not an age issue, that's the way the side is set up to play.

It's been 18 months now of this and not much has changed, except now we only seem capable of beating the really poor sides. I fully expect him to be given til the end of the season, but at that point we need to be severing all ties.

 

[Zatara]

totally agree Zat, and I don´t think giving an example of some other club where the youngsters are currently more consistent and its working decently negates the fact that in general young players will be inconsistent and that the policy the manager is employing does need patience.

....having said all that we all of course do acknowledge that maybe the manager will be shown as not the right guy and will leave earlier than his contracted time, but I don´t think that time is now.

I was pretty mad when Martinez signed and ee brought in Kone Robles and Alcaraz + didnt ship out the deadwood as soon as he arrived but then seeing how he setup the team and his focus on building a top attacking young exciting team ive gone the opposite way now and am really impressed in general with him -- others seem to have gone from positive to negative solely based on inconsistent results with a young side.

I think he deserves the chance to build his own team, thats all ive ever really said. Hes close now and in summer there will be 9 players out i think (as i listed in my best squad thread)....and he will have money to spend on transfers and wages.

If he keeps the players he wants together and adds pure first eleven quality at GK / CM /CF in the summer then im confident next season we will be pushing top 4.

The following season we will probably need to sign another CB to replace Jags and a forward to replace Kone...i think he deserves 2 more years.

I am looking at the level of quality and age of say Breel Embolo / Ruben Neves / Bernardo Silva types who are proven in europe, young and can fit his style...

With players like that coming in then over the next 2 seasons our stars will stay and be added to and we will look like a major force on paper to rival an arsenal type squad who have had a decade to gradually make additions whilst Martinez hasnt even had 3 seasons.

Im excited about the summer changes.

 

[Brendan Janus]

6 points from our nxt to games 4 minimum or he's gotta go. Even tho he won't!

Win or draw at Stoke, the way we are playing lollollollol

 

[Ashtonian]

Agree.
But the point of debate was more what is the alternative to buying these younger players?
Within our pay structure, the likes of Townsend/Rhodes/Adebayor/Shelvey are the alternative. Proven (for the most part) 6or7/10 players who know the league. Every now and then they will have a very good game, but more often than note they will hit the "decent" performance level.

So the choice is:

Continue to buy and progress the likes of Lukaku, Deulofeu, Stones, Barkley - genuine top talents who will have days of 5 or 6/10 because of the inconsistency of youth but will also have lots of good days where their talent shines through. Yes we won't keep all of them but as long as the side is progressing and we are replacing them with better (more experienced) players then we are on a the right path.

or.

We bolster the squad with the likes of the above who have little or no re-sale value and will guide us to the coveted 7th place trophy. We've done this approach before, remember, under Moyes (not that he did this by choice, it must be said).

We cannot afford 28 year old Lukakus. So it really is a choice between the two. Youth with their fearless approach but infuriating inconsistency or consistent average footballers.

Think the issue with moyes was more to do with game to game issues and tactics rather than the players.

But yeah, it is a fair point, but in our case we can buy young and plan for the future but then if there is an issue (for example management) then it won't lead anywhere. We may well achieve great things by the end of roberto's contract, but it is banking on everything working which so far that isn't the case.

unless you sign players that can't cut it at this level then any player can prove to be good for the team. Like Carsley, bog standard and seen as a journeyman, not very good. Under moyes and in one specific role he was top class there and was the bedrock of our initial good fortune under Moyes. Yet fast forward to now, if we were signing championship midfielders or whatever you would have classed carsley as at the time, then it would be seen as taking a step back. As many will say, how many leiscter players would make the everton team genuinely? the sum of all parts means it is about building the best team, not the best players.

If i offered you a team that contained galloway over baines, lennon over del, kone over lukaku, besic over barkley and oviedo over our left side (kev / new guy etc) you would shoot me down as it not being our best team. But that particular line up might go on an 8 game winning streak because they all fit the winning system. Granted we would have a very strong bench in that scenario but point is, they could well be the better team and none of them would get into a top 4 team now, but the people they are replacing would walk into them.

 

[matty1878]

Win or draw at Stoke, the way we are playing lollollollol

I know mate but 4 points from a home and away game is possible and should be a goal. Winning every game should be but this is Everton

 

[chippy1722]

Think the issue with moyes was more to do with game to game issues and tactics rather than the players.

how many leiscter players would make the everton team genuinely? the sum of all parts means it is about building the best team, not the best players.

I'd take Schmeichel, Vardy, kante and Mahrez straight away. Schmeichel, Kante and Mahrez would walk styraight in, and it would be a case of fitting Vardy around Lukaku.

 

[Ashtonian]

I'd take Schmeichel, Vardy, kante and Mahrez straight away. Schmeichel, Kante and Mahrez would walk styraight in, and it would be a case of fitting Vardy around Lukaku.

schemeichel isnt really that good of a keeper though mate, his name carries him more than his talent.

Kante, no idea, but McCarthy/Besic combo for me can be a top duo in my opinion.

MAhrez i will give you, only one who made a name for himself last season first so the lad has some talent.

 

[chippy1722]

schemeichel isnt really that good of a keeper though mate, his name carries him more than his talent.

Kante, no idea, but McCarthy/Besic combo for me can be a top duo in my opinion.

MAhrez i will give you, only one who made a name for himself last season first so the lad has some talent.

Schmeichel would walk in ahead of Robles and Howard, not as good as Butland but would walk in our present team.
I am a massive Besic fan, but would pick kante over any of our midfielders. Definitely over McCarthy and Barry.
Mahrez is a no brainer, Vardy would suit our counter attack, but what puts probably bigger teams off is the fact no one knows how he suits tippy tappy edge of the area passing, which we do a lot of.

 

[Ashtonian]

Schmeichel would walk in ahead of Robles and Howard, not as good as Butland but would walk in our present team.
I am a massive Besic fan, but would pick kante over any of our midfielders. Definitely over McCarthy and Barry.
Mahrez is a no brainer, Vardy would suit our counter attack, but what puts probably bigger teams off is the fact no one knows how he suits tippy tappy edge of the area passing, which we do a lot of.

Dont think i have ever watched Kante play tbh but he has kept Inler out the team so he must be decent.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Dont think i have ever watched Kante play tbh but he has kept Inler out the team so he must be decent.

Did you miss him against us? IIRC he caused us a few problems with his direct running

But I was rather 'refreshed'

 

[Big Neville Southall]

Probably been said before but I reckon he's here to stay for next few years unless there's a real threat of relegation.

 

[BernieWright13]

Until the end of next season, at the very least.

Question answered.

Delusion. Roberto lad, is that you?

 

[bluewally]

My opinion?

I don't really understand the question mate, sorry

Not complicated. What is your opinion that we should give him until the end of next season based on?

 

[BernieWright13]

Probably been said before but I reckon he's here to stay for next few years unless there's a real threat of relegation.

Depends on the ongoing crowd reaction if his non-performance continues...

 

[efcforever]

Look at all the stick Stones was getting from the pundits yesterday, from the people who hyped him up in the first place.

All the ones who stick into Martinez at every given opportunity, and there's plenty. I agree, sometimes I'd like to see him quizzed more, but a lot of the stick he gets is ridiculous - for example, Durham slating him the other day for not going to City (who have not failed to score at home in over a year bar the game against us a few weeks ago) to get a clean sheet.

His exact words were "All he had to do was keep a clean sheet at the Etihad".

Don't let him wind you up. His job is to get people to ring his show. He always goes out of his way to wind fans up so that they'll ring in and debate with him. He got completely owned by a Man Utd fan last night and didn't have a come back.