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Peyton is top 5 all time. I'd put him behind Unitas, Montana and Brady (used to have him above Brady but Brady's last couple of years have been great and put him over the top).

Peyton played in a dome most of his career and played in an offense that relies on down the field timing routes. He throws to a spot well before the WR even makes his cut. He never had to worry about weather, wind, and could perfect this kind of offense.

The playoffs are kind of a different game. The 3 best offenses I ever saw were the 1999 Rams, 2001 Rams and the 2007 Patriots. The 99 Rams were the only team to win the SB, scoring 23 pts (plus only winning the NFC championship 11-6) while the 2000 Rams lost the SB only scoring 17 and the Pats just managed 14 in their loss. Points are just tough to come by in the playoffs. The refs let the defenses get away with a lot of hand-checking and bumping of WRs which throws off the timing routes that would be flags in the regular season. Granted the last 3-5 years they've been calling those penalties in the playoffs more now but still allow a lot more leeway. Plus you can hit the QB harder and not have to worry about getting flagged. Then there is that cold weather thing. So the advantage usually lies with teams with good defenses that can run the ball, and use a short safe passing game come playoff time. Elway didn't win anything until he finally got a running game and a defense and Aaron Rodgers is kind of in the same situtation himself.

So yes, he is an all time great and probably the best regular season QB of all time for whatever that is worth. He's also bit unlucky running into the greatest team of this century on multiple occasions. That being said there is no excuse for losing to the Saints in the SB and losing to the Steelers in the 2005 AFC Championship.

So far on Peyton Manning I've heard:

"Great passing record, great in the regular season...but no ground game to help him out, defences in the post season have been allowed to rough him up, he's run into other teams in their pomp when it mattered etc etc".

He seems to get an awful lot of slack cut for him for an all time great.

An alternative reading would be that he cant close out seasons, has only really been consistent in an indoor arena where the elements are kept at bay, relies too much on his own ability to pass rather than develop a ground game, and that he's not resilient enough to cope with being sacked/roughed up multiple times by the time post season swings around.

That's not to be provocative, just a conclusion based on answers to the question I asked yesterday concerning Manning's status in the game.
 

Peyton is top 5 all time. I'd put him behind Unitas, Montana and Brady (used to have him above Brady but Brady's last couple of years have been great and put him over the top).

Peyton played in a dome most of his career and played in an offense that relies on down the field timing routes. He throws to a spot well before the WR even makes his cut. He never had to worry about weather, wind, and could perfect this kind of offense.

The playoffs are kind of a different game. The 3 best offenses I ever saw were the 1999 Rams, 2001 Rams and the 2007 Patriots. The 99 Rams were the only team to win the SB, scoring 23 pts (plus only winning the NFC championship 11-6) while the 2000 Rams lost the SB only scoring 17 and the Pats just managed 14 in their loss. Points are just tough to come by in the playoffs. The refs let the defenses get away with a lot of hand-checking and bumping of WRs which throws off the timing routes that would be flags in the regular season. Granted the last 3-5 years they've been calling those penalties in the playoffs more now but still allow a lot more leeway. Plus you can hit the QB harder and not have to worry about getting flagged. Then there is that cold weather thing. So the advantage usually lies with teams with good defenses that can run the ball, and use a short safe passing game come playoff time. Elway didn't win anything until he finally got a running game and a defense and Aaron Rodgers is kind of in the same situtation himself.

So yes, he is an all time great and probably the best regular season QB of all time for whatever that is worth. He's also bit unlucky running into the greatest team of this century on multiple occasions. That being said there is no excuse for losing to the Saints in the SB and losing to the Steelers in the 2005 AFC Championship.

The weather that night in Miami was terrible

 
Stan Kroenke, the NFL and Goodell are a joke. St.Louis' stadium proposal was deemed not good enough (despite putting up 400m in public money and being the only city out of the three to do so) for requesting $100m more from the league than the standard $200m to help build a stadium. Yet the league is going to provided that much and likely more to the Raiders to stay in oakland. Can't wait to see all the bandwagon LA "fans" switch back and forth between the rams and chargers every season depending on whose winning like they do with lakers/clippers.
 
Stan Kroenke, the NFL and Goodell are a joke. St.Louis' stadium proposal was deemed not good enough (despite putting up 400m in public money and being the only city out of the three to do so) for requesting $100m more from the league than the standard $200m to help build a stadium. Yet the league is going to provided that much and likely more to the Raiders to stay in oakland. Can't wait to see all the bandwagon LA "fans" switch back and forth between the rams and chargers every season depending on whose winning like they do with lakers/clippers.

Easy, St. Louis has a comittment for $400M of public money that Shieldball can now use to threaten other cities in the same way that the NBA uses the threat of relocation to Seattle to scare small market NBA cities.
 

Easy, St. Louis has a comittment for $400M of public money that Shieldball can now use to threaten other cities in the same way that the NBA uses the threat of relocation to Seattle to scare small market NBA cities.
I'm more irritated by the fact 1) its LA and 2) the hypocrisy and lies about it. If you want to build a $2b stadium and move your team just be upfront about it. Don't come out with BS about how you tried to keep the team in STL despite the fact you made pretty much no effort at all to do so (Kroenke). Also the fact the Goodell's decision to shut down the STL proposal due to STL asking for an additional $100m is what allowed them to be eligible for relocation is made even more egregious now that the NFL is offering that same $100m extra to Oakland and SD if they stay
 
Peyton is top 5 all time. I'd put him behind Unitas, Montana and Brady (used to have him above Brady but Brady's last couple of years have been great and put him over the top).

Peyton played in a dome most of his career and played in an offense that relies on down the field timing routes. He throws to a spot well before the WR even makes his cut. He never had to worry about weather, wind, and could perfect this kind of offense.

The playoffs are kind of a different game. The 3 best offenses I ever saw were the 1999 Rams, 2001 Rams and the 2007 Patriots. The 99 Rams were the only team to win the SB, scoring 23 pts (plus only winning the NFC championship 11-6) while the 2000 Rams lost the SB only scoring 17 and the Pats just managed 14 in their loss. Points are just tough to come by in the playoffs. The refs let the defenses get away with a lot of hand-checking and bumping of WRs which throws off the timing routes that would be flags in the regular season. Granted the last 3-5 years they've been calling those penalties in the playoffs more now but still allow a lot more leeway. Plus you can hit the QB harder and not have to worry about getting flagged. Then there is that cold weather thing. So the advantage usually lies with teams with good defenses that can run the ball, and use a short safe passing game come playoff time. Elway didn't win anything until he finally got a running game and a defense and Aaron Rodgers is kind of in the same situtation himself.

So yes, he is an all time great and probably the best regular season QB of all time for whatever that is worth. He's also bit unlucky running into the greatest team of this century on multiple occasions. That being said there is no excuse for losing to the Saints in the SB and losing to the Steelers in the 2005 AFC Championship.

There's one -- the Saints were the better team.
Peyton Manning is one of the greatest underachievers among NFL quarterbacks ever, IMO. One Super Bowl does not put him in the top five in my book, not when you have Brady, Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman all with three or more, and Eli Manning, Staubach, Roethlisberger, Starr, Elway, Plunkett and Griese with two apiece. And Dan Marino was better, even without a Super Bowl.
 
A day they will never take away from me. Ever. I saw Porter jump the route and was out of my seat before he even picked it off. Nearly 40 years of frustration washed away in one glorious night.

What a moment that was. It's all I remember know from XLIV, but that's when I knew it was ours. No can take that away from us.

If I remember correctly, Porter is a Hoosier. Was very sad to see him go.
 
I'm more irritated by the fact 1) its LA and 2) the hypocrisy and lies about it. If you want to build a $2b stadium and move your team just be upfront about it. Don't come out with BS about how you tried to keep the team in STL despite the fact you made pretty much no effort at all to do so (Kroenke). Also the fact the Goodell's decision to shut down the STL proposal due to STL asking for an additional $100m is what allowed them to be eligible for relocation is made even more egregious now that the NFL is offering that same $100m extra to Oakland and SD if they stay

Hard to deny we've seen peak NFL
 

What a moment that was. It's all I remember know from XLIV, but that's when I knew it was ours. No can take that away from us.

If I remember correctly, Porter is a Hoosier. Was very sad to see him go.

Indeed he is. We were sad to see him go as well in Bloomington.

We've been such a rich mine of defensive football talent, after all. Did you know Quinn Buckner played defensive back for a couple of years?
Yes, he was very good. All B1G his sophomore year, IIRC. Coach Knight encouraged him to concentrate on hoops, and Coach was very persuasive.

Peyton never had a team with a proper defense, IMHO. I still remember Fred Taylor and MJD getting Billy Sims/Oklahoma wishbone kind of rushing yardage down here against them in the same year the Colts finally actually won the whole thing. (I loved that Jaguars team...)

The Colts could generate pass rush, but they were always soft against the run. I had the privilege of watching both Manning and Brady shred my team over the last fifteen years. Lucky me. Brady played with more complete teams.

Peyton was technically the most accurate thrower I've even seen. Brady could make plays later in the rush cycle than any guy I've ever seen. He didn't extend plays like an elusive guy (that was Steve McNair - the play was never over with Steve McNair) but he could always get it out just before he got crushed and make 11 yards when they needed ten. Time after time. After time.
 
Easy, St. Louis has a comittment for $400M of public money that Shieldball can now use to threaten other cities in the same way that the NBA uses the threat of relocation to Seattle to scare small market NBA cities.

I'm more irritated by the fact 1) its LA and 2) the hypocrisy and lies about it. If you want to build a $2b stadium and move your team just be upfront about it. Don't come out with BS about how you tried to keep the team in STL despite the fact you made pretty much no effort at all to do so (Kroenke). Also the fact the Goodell's decision to shut down the STL proposal due to STL asking for an additional $100m is what allowed them to be eligible for relocation is made even more egregious now that the NFL is offering that same $100m extra to Oakland and SD if they stay

This whole thing was baked in since Kroenke exercised his option for the Rams. This whole process stinks so bad.

Jerry Jones comes back as a cucuracha. Crony capitalism at its worst, financed with tax dollars.

What's the League/Kroenke's excuse for moving them? Thank god we largely don't have to deal with teams relocating over here! :o
 
Team relocation does my head in, and name changes too... Houston Oilers/Texans etc

One of the big reasons I started following the 49ers was the link between the SF Gold Rush (I was studying it in junior school in the early 80's and the teacher mentioned the US team). I watched a game and saw Montana/Rice and that was me hooked.

Shame we have been useless this season after going so close the previous few.
 
Team relocation does my head in, and name changes too... Houston Oilers/Texans etc

One of the big reasons I started following the 49ers was the link between the SF Gold Rush (I was studying it in junior school in the early 80's and the teacher mentioned the US team). I watched a game and saw Montana/Rice and that was me hooked.

Shame we have been useless this season after going so close the previous few.

Oilers relocated to Nashville and are the Titans now. Texans are an expansion team began in 1999. It's a bit confusing.
 

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