Roberto Martinez discussion

[ToffeeTim]

Is that a good or bad thing in your opinion?

Certainly not a compliment

 

[toffee matt]

Incredible, I've actually just seen George Best as an example of a top trainer. Unbelievable lol



Ah right, we're scrubbing over the thrashing in Kiev as well. Let's just whitewash the lot.



Hmm.. and what also marked out that side.... attacking flair built on superb foundations. Our foundations are currently built on paper-mache... your messiah decided to spend £9.5m on Funes Mori, look where that has got us.



You mean like a £450k centre-forward the season we finished fourth having had to sell the most gifted teenager in English football on transfer deadline day? Or his net spend of something like £10m across his time at the Club? Again, we've just spaffed nearly that up the wall on Funes Mori. We are currently being saved from true embarrassment by a £28m centre forward.



For every win at Old Trafford (one) we've got home defeats vs United (0-3) this season alone. Statistically even worse than the United side annihilated by the ginger biff! Let's not look at his record vs Liverpool or City. Or Palace at home... gulp.



Literally yesterday - less than 24 hours ago - Naismith did a backpass of similar ineptitude.

Games against teams in the top half this season - 10 games, 0 wins, 5 draws, 5 defeats. Seven of them at home. 'Have a go hero' Martinez really must be impressing those returning chaps like yourself. Is the booing a sort of post-modern ironic appreciation of some kind?

You're defeating yourself with your own examples here.

Hard to disagree with much of this sadly and I'm not someone wanting Martinez sacked

 

[WarringtonBlue]

The point is that releasing that sort of money for a very young striker was an incredible show of faith by the Everton board. People can bleat on about TV deals etc. but they hadn't kicked in at that point and when you look round the league there have not been any teams outside of the monied 5 spending 30 mill on one player. It was a huge investment for an absolutely top class player. The type of player that when added to our top 6 squad should have easily differentiated us from the chaff of the league. It is therefore so utterly disappointing to see this player in top form on course for 30 goals in a league season but the team in the bottom half of the premier league when the top 4 is more open than ever. Utterly galling. This should have been a game changer for Everton but Martinez has well and truly missed the boat. Worse than that we were actually in a relegation battle at times last season. Dear me.

Lukaku is one of the world's best strikers already. Look at the impact Suarez had on Liverpool, Bale on Spurs, even Cabaye on Newcastle and now Palace. We've arguably got a stronger support cast than any of those players had! Not only do we have Lukaku but we also have Barkley and Deulofeu two of the continents top attacking talents flanking him with international pedigree like Mirallas sat on the bench.

I thought last season's bottom half finish was one of the worst managerial performances in recent times but if this side finishes bottom half for me it may be one of the worst in prem history and that's not even a joke. There's excuses galore and of course Martinez deserves the credit for bringing these players together but if you can't get a side with 4 world class players into the top half of the prem then you have no business at the top end of football management. The underperformance is criminal and this petty point scoring when we win a game as though coming 8th is a brilliant achievement is quite frankly embarassing. Look at Spurs and Leicester, in my opinion their first 11s are not a patch on ours yet they are right up there challenging for the title as we should have been given the failures of some of the top teams this year. Instead we are not even top half and some are falling it the best football for a generation. Utter delusion.

I would have to disagree with you on spurs mate

They have a world class keeper, 2 international centre backs who play together, and a young Industrious centre midfield partnership. Their options on the wings and centre are fantastic and while Kane isn't as good as lukaku he is not far off.

Leicester played kamikaze football, and got some points, and are playing off pure belief

As I said earlier, after this run of games we should be level with City after how we played. We have instead got the same amount t of points from the last 9 games as our difficult 10 game opener. And that is game management. I don't know about historic under achievemeet and I think comparisons like that are hard to do

Good on martinez to bring in lukaku no matter what though. I know a lot of people were calling it a waste of money but it was anything but

As

 

[degsy]

davek, davek, davek.

you're just like Martinez, you have a nice philosophy that you really, really, believe in, you weave pretty argumentative patterns and score a lot.


but you're not winning...except in your own mind

 

[orly]

davek, davek, davek.

you're just like Martinez, you have a nice philosophy that you really, really, believe in, you weave pretty argumentative patterns and score a lot.


but you're not winning...except in your own mind

lol

Never made that comparison but it does work

 

[edge]

3 wins from 18 last season was a sticky patch @edge - this is now a long slog through tar

yes i know what your saying, some worrying stuff just doesn't seem to go away ,mostly defense wise, and we are a bit to predictable at times, but maybe i am kidding myself but we could with a little bit of tinkering about have a decent team here, losing faith rapidly if i am honest though.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Not sure about that, wasn't he playing in the same team as Modric at one point, brilliant player.

Agree about what a stunning waste this season will be with such a wide open league if he fails to turn it around. How we've ended up 5 points behind Palace with the last five fixtures the way they were is beyond me.

Yeah think he was under Redknapp in that Champions league run. That was a very nice team. Think it was under AVB though without Modric (?) he hit 20 plus goals and they came 4th only for Chelsea to rob them.

Wouldn't mind but even the first team you mention with Modric in it, they literally had three decent players with VDV added to Bale and Modric, the rest were Crouch, Parker, Lennon, Dawson, Assou Ekotto etc. Our current side is far greater in terms of quality but they used their world class talent to win ten on the spin challenge for the title then end up fourth. We've used our world class talent to avoid relegation.

 

[banno]

No, it's more than that. One on one, we often give the opposition too much space. When we're marking them, we're often giving them three or four yards, which means when anyone with decent skills gets tbe ball they have time to control the ball and turn. Which, in turn, means more balls are coming into the box which should be getting snuffed out earlier. We shouldn't be too tight, because we'd run the risk of either getting skinned or giving cheap fouls away, but we need to be tighter.

Galloway was miles away from his man all the time in the first half, but was plainly told what to do at half time because he got a lot closer in the second half. It's not rocket science, but it plainly needs working on. A better keeper would help, as would having Jagielka fit again, but there's a fundamental problem with our defending which needs working on.

It's eminently fixable though, but it's going to be a big part of how Martinez is judged come the end of the season.

That's the problem in a nutshell IMO. We do not get close enough, we back off too much and this gives players time to control and pick a pass. I also think our midfield is easy to get through as they allow so much space for oncoming players by either backing off to our box or are caught up field. Our midfield is not combative enough and don't offer enough protection to the back 4. We defend very narrow allowing for crosses to come it at will and with no dominant defenders in the air and a goalie that is afraid of crosses makes a recipe for disaster. Going forward I have no complaints and its a joy to watch but we need plugs in the middle of the park and for defenders to be closer to there man so they don't have time to think and hurt us.

 

[Blue Cheese]

Moyes has gone, 2 1/2 years yet he is still brought up every argument. He's gone get over it, in 20 years time Moyes' record will not be remembered because he won nothing. Wish people would leave Moyes out of it now.

He chose to leave us remember, no compensation remember, derogatory offers for our players, yet he is held in high esteem because RM is underperforming.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

All the refs to the glorious, free-flowing football. Yeah, ok, sound. What's it really achieving though?

It's so blinkered to throw plaudits at that and ignore the rest of it. I spent a period watching COLEMAN yesterday and he genuinely - for a time at least - looked unsure as to what he was supposed to be doing or where he was supposed to be playing. To me that's not the fault of the player.

The scary thing about the link to the GUARDIAN interview a year ago is that SO little's changed since then. In a f**king YEAR.

http://www.theguardian.com/football...nez-not-alter-everton-playing-style-poor-form

Yes, when it works the attacking stuff is ace, but it's just a variation of 'hit and hope' in the sense of - and despite all the goodness attached to it -it just becomes little more than 'Ace, we've scored, let's hope the opposition don't score as many or more than us then eh...'.

And we know how that's working out.

And if you think all will be sorted by shipping & replacing HOWARD then you're miles off with that as well, it's only a part answer to a huge problem. One that he's unwilling to address it seems.

I read an interview with BOB an age ago, can't even recall where, about how studious he is, how he loves to learn/absorb...all that kinda fandango.

Not sure he was telling the truth TBH.

I'd have WAY more respect AND support for him if he acknowledged the prob and brought a defensive coach in, or a coach that doesn't base his opinions of players on how lovely their manners are. That'd be a start.

It's not about not WANTING to support the manager...it's about being UNABLE to support the manager when the issues are so crystal yet are failing to be addressed.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I would have to disagree with you on spurs mate

They have a world class keeper, 2 international centre backs who play together, and a young Industrious centre midfield partnership. Their options on the wings and centre are fantastic and while Kane isn't as good as lukaku he is not far off.

Leicester played kamikaze football, and got some points, and are playing off pure belief

As I said earlier, after this run of games we should be level with City after how we played. We have instead got the same amount t of points from the last 9 games as our difficult 10 game opener. And that is game management. I don't know about historic under achievemeet and I think comparisons like that are hard to do

Good on martinez to bring in lukaku no matter what though. I know a lot of people were calling it a waste of money but it was anything but

As

I think Spurs are a good team but honestly would not swap 11s. Their fullbacks are not a patch on ours, Vertonghen is a loose cannon but is sheperded by the excellent Aldeweireld. Dier and Alli are kids playing well, are either anywhere near the level of Barkley? Likewise they have Dembele and Lamela neither of whom is swap for Deulofeu. Their keeper is exceptional of course. When you look at the 11s though there is no reason why one should be 3rd and one 11th. The difference lies in the managers. One has a created. Balanced side with goals all over the team who defend as a unit. He was not scared to axe Mason and Bentaleb for two younger players he considered to be better. He has rehabilitated Dembele and Lamela (who weren't his players) and has addressed Spurs cebtreback problem with a clever purchase. All of this whilst juggling Europa League football. The other has created a completely unbalanced team who can't defend and has zero bite in midfield. We have one source of goals with previous little from elsewhere and we defend as individuals. Martinez cannot axe Barry McCarthy or Howard and has brought in Baines and McCarthy in for good players despite then not being fit to play. He has sidelined some Decent Moyes players (Mirallas Naismith Gibson Oviedo) and refuses to address a glaring problem with Howard. We also ended up in a relegation scrap when juggling the Europa. When you consider this its not hard to see why the league positions are so disparate.

 

[davids]

This is fast turning into last season,without the EL as an excuse.

 

[ToffeeTim]

I think Spurs are a good team but honestly would not swap 11s. Their fullbacks are not a patch on ours, Vertonghen is a loose cannon but is sheperded by the excellent Aldeweireld. Dier and Alli are kids playing well, are either anywhere near the level of Barkley? Likewise they have Dembele and Lamela neither of whom is swap for Deulofeu. Their keeper is exceptional of course. When you look at the 11s though there is no reason why one should be 3rd and one 11th. The difference lies in the managers. One has a created. Balanced side with goals all over the team who defend as a unit. He was not scared to axe Mason and Bentaleb for two younger players he considered to be better. He has rehabilitated Dembele and Lamela (who weren't his players) and has addressed Spurs cebtreback problem with a clever purchase. All of this whilst juggling Europa League football. The other has created a completely unbalanced team who can't defend and has zero bite in midfield. We have one source of goals with previous little from elsewhere and we defend as individuals. Martinez cannot axe Barry McCarthy or Howard and has brought in Baines and McCarthy in for good players despite then not being fit to play. He has sidelined some Decent Moyes players (Mirallas Naismith Gibson Oviedo) and refuses to address a glaring problem with Howard. We also ended up in a relegation scrap when juggling the Europa. When you consider this its not hard to see why the league positions are so disparate.

They are absolutely better than us. They are title contenders.

 

[Saint Domingo]

They are absolutely better than us. They are title contenders.

Because of their manager yes. Talent in the first 11? I don't see a huge collective difference. They have a better keeper I don't see any players to compare to Lukaku Barkley or Deulofeu never mind the two full backs. Kane is good but is not the same level as Lukaku for me. He's playing in a perfect system whereas Lukaku has scored for all the teams he's played for.

 

[Verbal Kint]

I think Spurs are a good team but honestly would not swap 11s. Their fullbacks are not a patch on ours, Vertonghen is a loose cannon but is sheperded by the excellent Aldeweireld. Dier and Alli are kids playing well, are either anywhere near the level of Barkley? Likewise they have Dembele and Lamela neither of whom is swap for Deulofeu. Their keeper is exceptional of course. When you look at the 11s though there is no reason why one should be 3rd and one 11th. The difference lies in the managers. One has a created. Balanced side with goals all over the team who defend as a unit. He was not scared to axe Mason and Bentaleb for two younger players he considered to be better. He has rehabilitated Dembele and Lamela (who weren't his players) and has addressed Spurs cebtreback problem with a clever purchase. All of this whilst juggling Europa League football. The other has created a completely unbalanced team who can't defend and has zero bite in midfield. We have one source of goals with previous little from elsewhere and we defend as individuals. Martinez cannot axe Barry McCarthy or Howard and has brought in Baines and McCarthy in for good players despite then not being fit to play. He has sidelined some Decent Moyes players (Mirallas Naismith Gibson Oviedo) and refuses to address a glaring problem with Howard. We also ended up in a relegation scrap when juggling the Europa. When you consider this its not hard to see why the league positions are so disparate.

Lloris v Howard
That's why they are so far ahead of us, really is that simple.