Roberto Martinez discussion

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99% agree! I love the way the money clubs are unfolding this year. A Merry-go-round of cash producing little from Utd, Liverpool and City without Kompany / Aguerro (whilst publicly begging for Guardiola with an incumbent manager) must be embarrassing for decent fans.

Moyes did the business that brought Stones and Naismith in and Martinez has shown respect and continuity with other good aspects of that side and put more emphasis on attack. The resulting pace and intent of the team is clear and it is great to watch when it clicks.

So the only reservation I have with Martinez is do you not think we flatter to deceive a bit at times? We press well, and it kinda gives Martinez carte blanche to say "well we tried to win, look at the stats etc etc" but quite a lot of that is just repeatedly flinging the ball at Lukaku. I do think we lack a bit of brain at times; Dolofeu and Barkley can be as wasteful as they can be entertaining (top players just don't relinquish possession that easily) and a similar lack of concentration lets us down at the back.

Have you seen the thread on our Defensive coach? Bit of a concern...
Good post that. I think the frustration around the club this season is because there is so much potential within the squad. It's the best squad we've had in my lifetime, but at the same time there are such a lot of young players. Stones, del, rom, Barkley are the spine of everything we do defensively and offensively but are all still all under 23, still developing as players and people.


It is blatant looking at the talent within the squad that a lot of the young players we have will go on, or already are, international starting players. The big question around Martinez is can he keep the players and squad together long enough for them to fulfill their potential at everton? He convinced those players to sign long term deals with the club so he's obviously going in the right direction but keeping them at the club is the acid test for him. I think they just need time to grow into the players they are capable of being and that will carry the club forward to where we want to be.

Martinez himself is a young manager still learning hid trade, he also needs time to maximise his potential. I think we have a good fit at the club, everyone is hungry to be successful, it's just frustrating that we aren't their yet especially with the state of the sky 4 this season.
 

It's a big season for Everton if we don't.win a.cup.or surge up the league in the second half of the season then it's bye bye good good players and and unless we get a buyer it'll be by by premierleague Everton. I know that sounds drastic. I could actually see us in a relegation battle and Moyes in swoop in in a few years.
 
Haha - sky 4. dunno why I haven't heard of that before.

If it's not us I so want Leicester to do it - just to utterly shame the money guys for the gut wrenching s***e they are.
It's a big season for Everton if we don't.win a.cup.or surge up the league in the second half of the season then it's bye bye good good players and and unless we get a buyer it'll be by by premierleague Everton. I know that sounds drastic. I could actually see us in a relegation battle and Moyes in swoop in in a few years.

Blimey. 'Drastic' is one word sir... Bad night?
 
If the take over turns out to be true, then all bets are off with regards to The Manager...which may or may not be good depending on your stance.

But on the other hand the 'Money can't buy you Stones' is, potentially, also up in the air.
 

A lot of people feeling very optimistic about that tie. Not quite sure why given our recent history...
Our recent history against City isn't too shabby. Doesn't mean we'll win but equally doesn't mean we won't.
Some people just prefer to be half full rather than three quarters empty.
 
I'm not sure what's meant by 'stepping stone', here. I would understand from this that agents and players considering the GOT only do so as a fleeting window for attracting a 'bigger' club.

Most Everton signings (like Moyes himself previously) are here for a decent stint and really develop and add to the club in their time, no? Aside from Fellaini, Lescott and Arteta (all of whom contributed well and we made decent profit on later)) and Rooney whom we also sold for decent money then and still made CL, we've either kept hold of big talents like Ross Barkley, John Stones, Leighton Baines and added guys like Lukaku etc. Albeit I'd like to see more of Steven Naismith and a bit less wastefulness from Dolefeu, Kone and Barkley (separate conversation).

The current run of draws against arguably inferior opposition is frustrating and doubly so since in this season it's costing us an otherwise achievable CL slot but I still don't see why this makes Everton a 'stepping stone' in light of the longevity of Managers and continuity in many of the players between Moyes and Martinez's teams.

Apologies if I missed the point though.
Apology accepted...best Yuletide wishes to you and yours
 
Is Roberto Martinez holding Everton back?
Date published: Wednesday 23rd December 2015 9:32
Roberto-Martinez-Football365.jpg

It’s a slightly strange experience watching Everton these days. It’s not that they’re bad, incapable of winning or scoring goals, or being tedious no-hopers like Sunderland, Villa or Manchester United, but they sure as all heck aren’t that good either. Or at least, not as good as they probably should be. In the end, you’re just left with the feeling that they should and could be so much better.
The Toffees are in the middle of a run that at the start of the season would have looked like a ripe period for collecting relatively simple points. While one can hardly blame them for losing to Leicester, given plenty of others have done the same in this implausible season, it wouldn’t have have been unreasonable to expect at least seven points from their previous three, against Bournemouth, Crystal Palace and Norwich. And yet, they only have three, their assorted fragilities combining to prevent victories in each.
At Carrow Road last week they were utterly dominant in the first half, with Gerard Deloufeu and Romelu Lukaku rampant, combining beautifully for the one goal they did manage to score, but they couldn’t convert their superiority into more, which made a Norwich comeback feel rather inevitable. Of course, that’s exactly what happened, something that happens far too often.
In theory, Everton should be a strong team with a realistic chance of breaking into the top four, particularly in this absurd season when points are scattered around like discarded Quality Street wrappers and nobody seems keen to win anything. They have John Stones, one of the most sought-after young central defenders in the country, one among the Premier League’s most underrated midfielders in James McCarthy, and Romelu Lukaku, a glorious and prolific striker still aged just 22, a walking example of why Jose Mourinho’s instincts are not always exactly spot on. Add Seamus Coleman, Leighton Baines and Ross Barkley to that list, and you have a rather handy looking team.
They also have Roberto Martinez, a manager with a shining reputation as one of the country’s great young bosses and thinkers on the game, one who is spoken of as heading to the very top by those who have known and worked with him.
Additionally, they have stability. Martinez is one of the two managers they have had since 2002, and as teams all around them toss coaches to the wolves at the slightest hint of trouble, Everton maintain that much sought-after state of serenity and consistency, the quality that we are led to believe is the key to success.
And yet, they have been without a trophy for 20 years, the longest dry spell in the club’s 137-year history, finished 11th last season and currently sit in the middle of a profoundly average division. They are capable of excellence but also, too often, of performances that leave the Goodison Park crowd grumbling with dissatisfaction and, perhaps most worryingly for the club, apathy. So why aren’t they better?
One answer is that Martinez simply hasn’t been allowed to make them better. This summer other clubs, of comparable or arguably lesser standing, showed the ambition to sign players like Yohan Cabaye, Xherdan Shaqiri and Dimitri Payet. Everton spent around £15million on Ramiro Fures Mori, Aaron Lennon and Gerard Deulofeu, only one of whom can seriously be argued to be an improvement to the starting XI.
Chairman Bill Kenwright is a fine salesman of his own image, that of a garrulous and passionate chairman who cares about his team as a fan does, and that’s quite possibly true. But that doesn’t mean he’s a good chairman. Everton fans, or at least those who look beyond the PR, have recognised for some time that while Kenwright gives a fine interview, his parsimony is frustrating and has led the club to stagnate as others around them have grown.
Perhaps that’s the reason that a look beyond the top players reveals not a great deal in terms of depth and quality. Their first XI is fine, aside possibly from Stones’s partner in defence and some consistency issues from Barkley and the sometimes dazzling but often frustrating Deulofeu, but a scratch beneath the surface reveals a collection of youngsters and cast-offs, and a large amount of injuries. That Arouna Kone, an honest trier but not much more, has appeared in every league game so far and seemingly retains his place in the team thanks to a hat-trick six weeks ago against Sunderland, should tell you plenty.
But perhaps the uncomfortable truth, and the main reason Everton aren’t perhaps as good as they should be, is that Martinez simply isn’t as good as his reputation suggests. He did, after all, get the Everton job after taking Wigan down (admittedly also winning the FA Cup), and defensive organisation has proved as much of a problem at Goodison as it did at the DW Stadium. Last season they conceded only one goal fewer than relegated Hull, while this term they have continued to show plenty of weaknesses, particularly from set-pieces. The goals against Palace and Norwich both came from this route, and the two basically pointless penalties they conceded against Leicester were indicative of a defence in which panic is set.
Martinez seems to lack anything like a Plan B; when his usual aesthetically pleasing style doesn’t work, he has nowhere else to go. Perhaps that is due to the construction of his squad, but his substitutions are frequently head-scratching, and the persistence with Kone when the more lively Kevin Mirallas and Steven Naismith sit on the bench is baffling.
“We need to be better,” said Martinez after the Leicester defeat. “We conceded three goals, in my eyes with very little threat from Leicester.” He almost seemed to be talking about this as if it was an isolated incident, an aberration among a much more consistent run of defensive solidity, when anyone who has watched them play can clearly see otherwise.
“When you go away from home, the home side is always going to have a say,” Martinez said after the draw with Norwich. “I don’t think anything changed – our intensity was as good in the second half as it was in the first.” Perhaps, much like his chairman, Martinez was trying to put on a positive front, to publicly insist all is well while giving his team both barrels in the dressing room, but if Martinez genuinely believed there wasn’t much difference between his side’s performance in the two halves, then that points to wider problems. There is a fragility to this Everton side that was exposed at Carrow Road, as it has been on a number of occasions this season, and Martinez seeming not to (publicly) recognise this suggests he isn’t doing anything, or at least enough, to rectify that.
There’s a temptation to write Martinez off as a fraud and a spoofer, the managerial equivalent of the Emperor’s New Clothes, and while that would probably be too harsh, he’s not exactly earning his shining reputation. Everton are still handily-placed to achieve a decent league finish this season, and are a long way from being a bad team. It’s just that they should be so much better than they are.
Nick Miller
 
Is Roberto Martinez holding Everton back?
Date published: Wednesday 23rd December 2015 9:32
Roberto-Martinez-Football365.jpg

It’s a slightly strange experience watching Everton these days. It’s not that they’re bad, incapable of winning or scoring goals, or being tedious no-hopers like Sunderland, Villa or Manchester United, but they sure as all heck aren’t that good either. Or at least, not as good as they probably should be. In the end, you’re just left with the feeling that they should and could be so much better.
The Toffees are in the middle of a run that at the start of the season would have looked like a ripe period for collecting relatively simple points. While one can hardly blame them for losing to Leicester, given plenty of others have done the same in this implausible season, it wouldn’t have have been unreasonable to expect at least seven points from their previous three, against Bournemouth, Crystal Palace and Norwich. And yet, they only have three, their assorted fragilities combining to prevent victories in each.
At Carrow Road last week they were utterly dominant in the first half, with Gerard Deloufeu and Romelu Lukaku rampant, combining beautifully for the one goal they did manage to score, but they couldn’t convert their superiority into more, which made a Norwich comeback feel rather inevitable. Of course, that’s exactly what happened, something that happens far too often.
In theory, Everton should be a strong team with a realistic chance of breaking into the top four, particularly in this absurd season when points are scattered around like discarded Quality Street wrappers and nobody seems keen to win anything. They have John Stones, one of the most sought-after young central defenders in the country, one among the Premier League’s most underrated midfielders in James McCarthy, and Romelu Lukaku, a glorious and prolific striker still aged just 22, a walking example of why Jose Mourinho’s instincts are not always exactly spot on. Add Seamus Coleman, Leighton Baines and Ross Barkley to that list, and you have a rather handy looking team.
They also have Roberto Martinez, a manager with a shining reputation as one of the country’s great young bosses and thinkers on the game, one who is spoken of as heading to the very top by those who have known and worked with him.
Additionally, they have stability. Martinez is one of the two managers they have had since 2002, and as teams all around them toss coaches to the wolves at the slightest hint of trouble, Everton maintain that much sought-after state of serenity and consistency, the quality that we are led to believe is the key to success.
And yet, they have been without a trophy for 20 years, the longest dry spell in the club’s 137-year history, finished 11th last season and currently sit in the middle of a profoundly average division. They are capable of excellence but also, too often, of performances that leave the Goodison Park crowd grumbling with dissatisfaction and, perhaps most worryingly for the club, apathy. So why aren’t they better?
One answer is that Martinez simply hasn’t been allowed to make them better. This summer other clubs, of comparable or arguably lesser standing, showed the ambition to sign players like Yohan Cabaye, Xherdan Shaqiri and Dimitri Payet. Everton spent around £15million on Ramiro Fures Mori, Aaron Lennon and Gerard Deulofeu, only one of whom can seriously be argued to be an improvement to the starting XI.
Chairman Bill Kenwright is a fine salesman of his own image, that of a garrulous and passionate chairman who cares about his team as a fan does, and that’s quite possibly true. But that doesn’t mean he’s a good chairman. Everton fans, or at least those who look beyond the PR, have recognised for some time that while Kenwright gives a fine interview, his parsimony is frustrating and has led the club to stagnate as others around them have grown.
Perhaps that’s the reason that a look beyond the top players reveals not a great deal in terms of depth and quality. Their first XI is fine, aside possibly from Stones’s partner in defence and some consistency issues from Barkley and the sometimes dazzling but often frustrating Deulofeu, but a scratch beneath the surface reveals a collection of youngsters and cast-offs, and a large amount of injuries. That Arouna Kone, an honest trier but not much more, has appeared in every league game so far and seemingly retains his place in the team thanks to a hat-trick six weeks ago against Sunderland, should tell you plenty.
But perhaps the uncomfortable truth, and the main reason Everton aren’t perhaps as good as they should be, is that Martinez simply isn’t as good as his reputation suggests. He did, after all, get the Everton job after taking Wigan down (admittedly also winning the FA Cup), and defensive organisation has proved as much of a problem at Goodison as it did at the DW Stadium. Last season they conceded only one goal fewer than relegated Hull, while this term they have continued to show plenty of weaknesses, particularly from set-pieces. The goals against Palace and Norwich both came from this route, and the two basically pointless penalties they conceded against Leicester were indicative of a defence in which panic is set.
Martinez seems to lack anything like a Plan B; when his usual aesthetically pleasing style doesn’t work, he has nowhere else to go. Perhaps that is due to the construction of his squad, but his substitutions are frequently head-scratching, and the persistence with Kone when the more lively Kevin Mirallas and Steven Naismith sit on the bench is baffling.
“We need to be better,” said Martinez after the Leicester defeat. “We conceded three goals, in my eyes with very little threat from Leicester.” He almost seemed to be talking about this as if it was an isolated incident, an aberration among a much more consistent run of defensive solidity, when anyone who has watched them play can clearly see otherwise.
“When you go away from home, the home side is always going to have a say,” Martinez said after the draw with Norwich. “I don’t think anything changed – our intensity was as good in the second half as it was in the first.” Perhaps, much like his chairman, Martinez was trying to put on a positive front, to publicly insist all is well while giving his team both barrels in the dressing room, but if Martinez genuinely believed there wasn’t much difference between his side’s performance in the two halves, then that points to wider problems. There is a fragility to this Everton side that was exposed at Carrow Road, as it has been on a number of occasions this season, and Martinez seeming not to (publicly) recognise this suggests he isn’t doing anything, or at least enough, to rectify that.
There’s a temptation to write Martinez off as a fraud and a spoofer, the managerial equivalent of the Emperor’s New Clothes, and while that would probably be too harsh, he’s not exactly earning his shining reputation. Everton are still handily-placed to achieve a decent league finish this season, and are a long way from being a bad team. It’s just that they should be so much better than they are.
Nick Miller

No.
 
It's a big season for Everton if we don't.win a.cup.or surge up the league in the second half of the season then it's bye bye good good players and and unless we get a buyer it'll be by by premierleague Everton. I know that sounds drastic. I could actually see us in a relegation battle and Moyes in swoop in in a few years.
Every season appears to be a bigger and more demanding season under RM, as with DM it was let's hope to challenge for a EL place as the maximum.
As for relegation :)
 

Is Roberto Martinez holding Everton back?
Date published: Wednesday 23rd December 2015 9:32
Roberto-Martinez-Football365.jpg

It’s a slightly strange experience watching Everton these days. It’s not that they’re bad, incapable of winning or scoring goals, or being tedious no-hopers like Sunderland, Villa or Manchester United, but they sure as all heck aren’t that good either. Or at least, not as good as they probably should be. In the end, you’re just left with the feeling that they should and could be so much better.
The Toffees are in the middle of a run that at the start of the season would have looked like a ripe period for collecting relatively simple points. While one can hardly blame them for losing to Leicester, given plenty of others have done the same in this implausible season, it wouldn’t have have been unreasonable to expect at least seven points from their previous three, against Bournemouth, Crystal Palace and Norwich. And yet, they only have three, their assorted fragilities combining to prevent victories in each.
At Carrow Road last week they were utterly dominant in the first half, with Gerard Deloufeu and Romelu Lukaku rampant, combining beautifully for the one goal they did manage to score, but they couldn’t convert their superiority into more, which made a Norwich comeback feel rather inevitable. Of course, that’s exactly what happened, something that happens far too often.
In theory, Everton should be a strong team with a realistic chance of breaking into the top four, particularly in this absurd season when points are scattered around like discarded Quality Street wrappers and nobody seems keen to win anything. They have John Stones, one of the most sought-after young central defenders in the country, one among the Premier League’s most underrated midfielders in James McCarthy, and Romelu Lukaku, a glorious and prolific striker still aged just 22, a walking example of why Jose Mourinho’s instincts are not always exactly spot on. Add Seamus Coleman, Leighton Baines and Ross Barkley to that list, and you have a rather handy looking team.
They also have Roberto Martinez, a manager with a shining reputation as one of the country’s great young bosses and thinkers on the game, one who is spoken of as heading to the very top by those who have known and worked with him.
Additionally, they have stability. Martinez is one of the two managers they have had since 2002, and as teams all around them toss coaches to the wolves at the slightest hint of trouble, Everton maintain that much sought-after state of serenity and consistency, the quality that we are led to believe is the key to success.
And yet, they have been without a trophy for 20 years, the longest dry spell in the club’s 137-year history, finished 11th last season and currently sit in the middle of a profoundly average division. They are capable of excellence but also, too often, of performances that leave the Goodison Park crowd grumbling with dissatisfaction and, perhaps most worryingly for the club, apathy. So why aren’t they better?
One answer is that Martinez simply hasn’t been allowed to make them better. This summer other clubs, of comparable or arguably lesser standing, showed the ambition to sign players like Yohan Cabaye, Xherdan Shaqiri and Dimitri Payet. Everton spent around £15million on Ramiro Fures Mori, Aaron Lennon and Gerard Deulofeu, only one of whom can seriously be argued to be an improvement to the starting XI.
Chairman Bill Kenwright is a fine salesman of his own image, that of a garrulous and passionate chairman who cares about his team as a fan does, and that’s quite possibly true. But that doesn’t mean he’s a good chairman. Everton fans, or at least those who look beyond the PR, have recognised for some time that while Kenwright gives a fine interview, his parsimony is frustrating and has led the club to stagnate as others around them have grown.
Perhaps that’s the reason that a look beyond the top players reveals not a great deal in terms of depth and quality. Their first XI is fine, aside possibly from Stones’s partner in defence and some consistency issues from Barkley and the sometimes dazzling but often frustrating Deulofeu, but a scratch beneath the surface reveals a collection of youngsters and cast-offs, and a large amount of injuries. That Arouna Kone, an honest trier but not much more, has appeared in every league game so far and seemingly retains his place in the team thanks to a hat-trick six weeks ago against Sunderland, should tell you plenty.
But perhaps the uncomfortable truth, and the main reason Everton aren’t perhaps as good as they should be, is that Martinez simply isn’t as good as his reputation suggests. He did, after all, get the Everton job after taking Wigan down (admittedly also winning the FA Cup), and defensive organisation has proved as much of a problem at Goodison as it did at the DW Stadium. Last season they conceded only one goal fewer than relegated Hull, while this term they have continued to show plenty of weaknesses, particularly from set-pieces. The goals against Palace and Norwich both came from this route, and the two basically pointless penalties they conceded against Leicester were indicative of a defence in which panic is set.
Martinez seems to lack anything like a Plan B; when his usual aesthetically pleasing style doesn’t work, he has nowhere else to go. Perhaps that is due to the construction of his squad, but his substitutions are frequently head-scratching, and the persistence with Kone when the more lively Kevin Mirallas and Steven Naismith sit on the bench is baffling.
“We need to be better,” said Martinez after the Leicester defeat. “We conceded three goals, in my eyes with very little threat from Leicester.” He almost seemed to be talking about this as if it was an isolated incident, an aberration among a much more consistent run of defensive solidity, when anyone who has watched them play can clearly see otherwise.
“When you go away from home, the home side is always going to have a say,” Martinez said after the draw with Norwich. “I don’t think anything changed – our intensity was as good in the second half as it was in the first.” Perhaps, much like his chairman, Martinez was trying to put on a positive front, to publicly insist all is well while giving his team both barrels in the dressing room, but if Martinez genuinely believed there wasn’t much difference between his side’s performance in the two halves, then that points to wider problems. There is a fragility to this Everton side that was exposed at Carrow Road, as it has been on a number of occasions this season, and Martinez seeming not to (publicly) recognise this suggests he isn’t doing anything, or at least enough, to rectify that.
There’s a temptation to write Martinez off as a fraud and a spoofer, the managerial equivalent of the Emperor’s New Clothes, and while that would probably be too harsh, he’s not exactly earning his shining reputation. Everton are still handily-placed to achieve a decent league finish this season, and are a long way from being a bad team. It’s just that they should be so much better than they are.
Nick Miller


Massively so and should be sacked.

Good article.
 
Every season appears to be a bigger and more demanding season under RM, as with DM it was let's hope to challenge for a EL place as the maximum.
As for relegation :)
I know, 20 odd years of being mediocre and suddenly some have ridiculous expectations, i know we've got 2 or 3 top top players now days but kinell, be half sensible . Bobby raised everyones hopes to early now its a stick the Bawk lot are beating him with.

Funny thing is these people probably the ones that clapped the board in years gone by
 
There’s a temptation to write Martinez off as a fraud and a spoofer, the managerial equivalent of the Emperor’s New Clothes, and while that would probably be too harsh, he’s not exactly earning his shining reputation.

Oh yes.
 
I know, 20 odd years of being mediocre and suddenly some have ridiculous expectations, i know we've got 2 or 3 top top players now days but kinell, be half sensible . Bobby raised everyones hopes to early now its a stick the Bawk lot are beating him with.

Funny thing is these people probably the ones that clapped the board in years gone by

The only think I've given clap to is yer ma
 

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