Roberto Martinez discussion

[Zatara]

A-- We lost to Man Utd. If we had beaten them they would be 3 points worse off and we would be 3 points better off. Likewise with other games simple errors and we could easily be in 4th which is far ahead of where we should be with this squad.

B-- Baines has been out for half a year and not back to form yet + Jagielka out till Jan + Coleman has been out (3 first choice defenders). Leaving a 19year old as first choice left back for 15 games and now Mori to get 8 games and adapting...not to mention McCarthy being injured for the past few games.

C-- More than enough cover in Garbutt (on loan at Fulham), Oviedo (perma crocked) and 19 year old Galloway....i dont think so.

D-- Stones,Barkley, Deulofeu and Lukaku are of course still kids. To say otherwise is ridiculous as they are all eligible for the PFA young player of the year award.

E-- You say that if Martinez wanted to rest or drop the kids then he has other options...well he doesnt actually, heres the backup:

Hibbert - injured
Browning -injured
Gibson - less said the better
McGeady - Worse than idan Tal
McAleny - see McGeady
Osman - finished
Pienaar - injured
Naismith - not good enough
Mirallas - been poor
Lennon - jurys out
Besic - been injured

Martinez needs to build a squad. Luckily in the Jan window hes highlighted 4 of them for possible moves and theres 5 of moyes signings out of contract in summer.

F-- Were still in a league cup semi.


So 6pts off 4th and in a league cup semi with such a squad is pretty good and to think we could be even higher with a bit of luck or a new keeper.

 

[1966efc]

What job? You must have an expectation in mind. What have we done over the first 17 games that is moving is towards this target? Rather than just laughing at other posts them coming out with baseless statements, back some of them up. What is the job you expect of Martinez and how is he achieving it?

Bit of advice - feel free to ignore.

1. Never take a person who uses emoticons seriously. They rarely if ever have anything to offer other than what they presume is a populist 'opinion'.

2. Save your breath to cool your porridge. The cheerleaders for R M are so busy shaking their pom poms they don't have the time to read your posts with the attention they merit.

 

[Khalekan]

Good post, Zat but I vehemently disagree with one thing.

No way is Aiden McGeady "worse than Idan Tal".

Ian Wilson wasn't even worse that Idan Tal

A-- We lost to Man Utd. If we had beaten them they would be 3 points worse off and we would be 3 points better off. Likewise with other games simple errors and we could easily be in 4th which is far ahead of where we should be with this squad.

B-- Baines has been out for half a year and not back to form yet + Jagielka out till Jan + Coleman has been out (3 first choice defenders). Leaving a 19year old as first choice left back for 15 games and now Mori to get 8 games and adapting...not to mention McCarthy being injured for the past few games.

C-- More than enough cover in Garbutt (on loan at Fulham), Oviedo (perma crocked) and 19 year old Galloway....i dont think so.

D-- Stones,Barkley, Deulofeu and Lukaku are of course still kids. To say otherwise is ridiculous as they are all eligible for the PFA young player of the year award.

E-- You say that if Martinez wanted to rest or drop the kids then he has other options...well he doesnt actually, heres the backup:

Hibbert - injured
Browning -injured
Gibson - less said the better
McGeady - Worse than idan Tal
McAleny - see McGeady
Osman - finished
Pienaar - injured
Naismith - not good enough
Mirallas - been poor
Lennon - jurys out
Besic - been injured

Martinez needs to build a squad. Luckily in the Jan window hes highlighted 4 of them for possible moves and theres 5 of moyes signings out of contract in summer.

F-- Were still in a league cup semi.


So 6pts off 4th and in a league cup semi with such a squad is pretty good and to think we could be even higher with a bit of luck or a new keeper.

 

[squonk]

Mmmm....even some of his fanatics want him reviewed at the end of the season now....the tide is turning

 

[WarringtonBlue]

@ianefc haven't read all your post but te last time his subs change things was when he brought Kone and Gibson on against WBA who were instrumental in getting the win. Prior to that Naismith against Chelsea and prior to that McGeady against west ham

 

[Saint Domingo]

A-- We lost to Man Utd. If we had beaten them they would be 3 points worse off and we would be 3 points better off. Likewise with other games simple errors and we could easily be in 4th which is far ahead of where we should be with this squad.

B-- Baines has been out for half a year and not back to form yet + Jagielka out till Jan + Coleman has been out (3 first choice defenders). Leaving a 19year old as first choice left back for 15 games and now Mori to get 8 games and adapting...not to mention McCarthy being injured for the past few games.

C-- More than enough cover in Garbutt (on loan at Fulham), Oviedo (perma crocked) and 19 year old Galloway....i dont think so.

D-- Stones,Barkley, Deulofeu and Lukaku are of course still kids. To say otherwise is ridiculous as they are all eligible for the PFA young player of the year award.

E-- You say that if Martinez wanted to rest or drop the kids then he has other options...well he doesnt actually, heres the backup:

Hibbert - injured
Browning -injured
Gibson - less said the better
McGeady - Worse than idan Tal
McAleny - see McGeady
Osman - finished
Pienaar - injured
Naismith - not good enough
Mirallas - been poor
Lennon - jurys out
Besic - been injured

Martinez needs to build a squad. Luckily in the Jan window hes highlighted 4 of them for possible moves and theres 5 of moyes signings out of contract in summer.

F-- Were still in a league cup semi.


So 6pts off 4th and in a league cup semi with such a squad is pretty good and to think we could be even higher with a bit of luck or a new keeper.

Just a massively subjective post. If we'd won every game this season we'd be champions but there's reasons why we're in tenth instead. If you're happy with our lot this season then that's your prerogative. I'm not as of yet but if we get any cup success that will wipe away what is looking like an increasingly poor league showing. Long way to go even in the league cup though.

 

[Titus Bramble]

We haven't had any soft tissue injuries for a while now. Credit to Martinez for sorting that out.

 

[Pat's Van]

First off can I just ask why does everyone keep bringing up this '6 points off fourth'? 6 points is a lot, in fact it's 1/10th of an entire season's haul which Davek has said is very difficult to achieve. We haven't won back to back games in a long time. There are multiple teams ahead of us yet everyone can seemingly quite easily envisage some time in the second half of the season where we not only match the form of the teams currently in fourth (form we haven't displayed for 18 months) but better it by 7 points more than them. A very very tall order. So this 6 points off fourth means absolutely nothing.

Key injuries? Playing kids every game? We've incurred two semi major injuries to Baines and Jags (neither season ruining), big players yes but in positions where we have more than good enough cover in new signing Mori and Oviedo/Garbutt/Galloway.

Apart from the left back slot I don't see where we've played kids every game. Stones Barkley Rom Deulofeu are not kids. They are all plus 20 with years of prem experience now as well as being internationals. If they are inexperienced then Martinez has other options and has made the choice to play them. Some just like to use this to excuse underperformance 'inexperienced kids making mistakes', they've probably been our 4 best players this season, the problem does not lie there even if the convenient imaginary excuse does.

As for the league cup semi I've said before that if Martinez gets past City it will be a massive massive achievement. Scraping past championship sides in extra time or penalties is not a managerial feat though. People making out that Boro away was the most difficult game of Evertobs recent history was laughable.

gotta agree with this, we do seem to keep coming up with random stats about being so many points off something else, and it's fkn nonsense

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Enough is enough with Martinez for me. I pray were on the look out for a new gaffer. He should be getting a lot more out of this squad. And the fact he just refuses to ever drop anyone....Whats the point in a squad.

He needs to go!!!

Seriously?

lol

A couple of frustrating results of late, but a blind man can see that this side is playing infinitely better than this time last year when he was persisting with the tiki taka one paced crap.

My only current beef with him is sticking with the hapless Howard, who's costing us points, as he did again on Saturday.

 

[Lanolin]

A-- We lost to Man Utd. If we had beaten them they would be 3 points worse off and we would be 3 points better off. Likewise with other games simple errors and we could easily be in 4th which is far ahead of where we should be with this squad.

B-- Baines has been out for half a year and not back to form yet + Jagielka out till Jan + Coleman has been out (3 first choice defenders). Leaving a 19year old as first choice left back for 15 games and now Mori to get 8 games and adapting...not to mention McCarthy being injured for the past few games.

C-- More than enough cover in Garbutt (on loan at Fulham), Oviedo (perma crocked) and 19 year old Galloway....i dont think so.

D-- Stones,Barkley, Deulofeu and Lukaku are of course still kids. To say otherwise is ridiculous as they are all eligible for the PFA young player of the year award.

E-- You say that if Martinez wanted to rest or drop the kids then he has other options...well he doesnt actually, heres the backup:

Hibbert - injured
Browning -injured
Gibson - less said the better
McGeady - Worse than idan Tal
McAleny - see McGeady
Osman - finished
Pienaar - injured
Naismith - not good enough
Mirallas - been poor
Lennon - jurys out
Besic - been injured

Martinez needs to build a squad. Luckily in the Jan window hes highlighted 4 of them for possible moves and theres 5 of moyes signings out of contract in summer.

F-- Were still in a league cup semi.


So 6pts off 4th and in a league cup semi with such a squad is pretty good and to think we could be even higher with a bit of luck or a new keeper.

I don't even know where to start with this.

What on earth has losing to united got to do with it? If you're going to pick a game to use as a 'sliding doors' moment, don't use one where we got thumped 3 zip at home by a team that has struggled to score goals all season. Even if that had happened, the turnaround would only have us in 7th, so it wouldn't exactly put an entirely new complexion on things. We could just as easily say 'if Harry Kane had been in the form he is now when we played them, he wouldn't have missed sitters and we would have lost at Spurs' or 'if Cameron Jerome hadn't blazed over an open net we'd have lost to Norwich, and if the ref had spotted a blatant foul by Barry against Palace we'd be going in to Christmas on the back of 3 straight defeats'.

You can't say that players like Lennon aren't options for the manager because 'the jury's out'! For who? Not the manager I would hope, seeing as he spent £4.5m on him less then 6 months ago after working with him every day for half a season. If that is what you mean, then what does it say for his decision making?

As has been said, why people are talking about 6 points off 4th being some kind of achievement I have no idea. Our form over the past 18 months suggests that this is far more likely to mean we finish 12+ points shy of 4th rather than meaning we are within striking distance.

 

[davids]

Seriously?

lol

A couple of frustrating results of late, but a blind man can see that this side is playing infinitely better than this time last year when he was persisting with the tiki taka one paced crap.

My only current beef with him is sticking with the hapless Howard, who's costing us points, as he did again on Saturday.

I'm not a Howard fan but I think pinning the Saturday loss on him only, is more than a bit unfair,our general defending was woeful.

 

[Titus Bramble]

I don't even know where to start with this.

What on earth has losing to united got to do with it? If you're going to pick a game to use as a 'sliding doors' moment, don't use one where we got thumped 3 zip at home by a team that has struggled to score goals all season. Even if that had happened, the turnaround would only have us in 7th, so it wouldn't exactly put an entirely new complexion on things. We could just as easily say 'if Harry Kane had been in the form he is now when we played them, he wouldn't have missed sitters and we would have lost at Spurs' or 'if Cameron Jerome hadn't blazed over an open net we'd have lost to Norwich, and if the ref had spotted a blatant foul by Barry against Palace we'd be going in to Christmas on the back of 3 straight defeats'.

You can't say that players like Lennon aren't options for the manager because 'the jury's out'! For who? Not the manager I would hope, seeing as he spent £4.5m on him less then 6 months ago after working with him every day for half a season. If that is what you mean, then what does it say for his decision making?

As has been said, why people are talking about 6 points off 4th being some kind of achievement I have no idea. Our form over the past 18 months suggests that this is far more likely to mean we finish 12+ points shy of 4th rather than meaning we are within striking distance.

I think this is being said in a more 'we're still within touching distance of where we want to be' kind of way, rather than saying it's an achievement. The season is far from over. That's how I read it anyway.

 

[hullefc]

TBH I just started writing a list and I realised I was just spouting the same stuff that's been said by 100+ other posters. I don't think he's capable, their are too many worrying traits. I hope I'm proved wrong not for Martinez but for Everton and our fans, I say I hope I'm proved wrong because as has been correctly pointed out he is here for the long term, of that their is no doubt. The only way he would go was if their was a change of ownership and the form persisted.

Their are things that he could try. Getting the players fitter for one, too many games this season a few of our players seem to be struggling in the later stages of the game, with no EL excuse this season.

He could ease up on playing Kone and Howard, the former would be an easier decision than the later, I'm sure once MaCarthy is back Ckeverley will return to the left but Kone won't return to the right because of Deulofeu' form.

He could make subs before the momentum of the game gets too far away from us, I was at the Aston Villa game in 13/14 and in the first half we stunk the place out, we were atrocious and a goal behind, the only thing worse than our teams performance was Barkley's and he got hooked at HT Osman came on and we went on to win 2-1 and were much better in 2nd half. Osman also changed the away fixture that season TBF he was bought on at 0-0 and we went on to win 2-0. That was a big feature of that season, when was the last time he made a sub that completely turned the tide of a game in our favour? And that only adds to the frustration when people, including myself, say we have the best squad we have had, the options must be avaliable to him.

He could stop treating fans like idiots in the post game interviews, I know what he says to us after a bad result won't be what he says to the players, I'm also not expecting him to push any individual under a bus either, but like someone quoted Alan Ball the other day 'you can't kid Evertonians' he also said 'Once Everton has touched you nothing else is the same' just thought I'd throw that in there

Opinions on performances can by interpreted by individuals' mindsets when forming them, someone can say 'we were scintillating V Norwich' and someone could come right back at them and say 'but not in the 2nd half and you'll get nowhere by only playing for 45 in the PL' both opinions could be construed as being valid, but stats don't lie

• 2 wins in 10
• 6 wins in 90 minutes in 20 games this season
• 17 wins V PL opposition in all comps since Leicester on opening day 14/15 (59 games)
• 19 clean sheets in last 72 competitive games in all comps compared to 20 in his first 42
• In the past 18 months we have lost 26 points from winning positions
• Won 12 league games this calendar year from 36 games
• Gained just 70 points from last 165 available
• Has on form the second most in form striker in the league (statistically) we are 10th... The most inform striker (statistically) his team are top

These are a few stats and I'm sure someone will say that I can do anything with stats, but the ones above are all accurate.

I also think it's important to note that us losing to Leicester doesn't make me any more right or wrong than I was on Friday evening, it's a much bigger picture than that, the same way the ones who dismiss the past 18 months as being 'just fine' would therefore be hypocrites if they'd of told me, had we won yesterday, that it had done his proved Martinez' had us 'back on track'

He's a manager with no sustained time of being relatively successful in this league he had one season with us the rest he has spent underachieving, aside from winning the FA cup (which Im sure some will jump on me for) people will also say he didn't have the calibre of player to Keep Wigan in the league, I'd counter that by saying he has the talent at his disposal to achieve better stats than those listed above.

That said.....should he win us the League Cup he can do what he wants with Everton for the rest of the season, except relegate us.

A very well reasoned post. "I don't think he's capable, their are too many worrying traits". Are they the ones I've highlighted in bold?

Edit. I'm off out so I am not being ignorant in not responding today.

 

[Brendan Janus]

Unfortunately, like last season, I am looking over my shoulder, rather than looking forward !

 

[Titus Bramble]

Unfortunately, like last season, I am looking over my shoulder, rather than looking forward !

Why? We're as close to the Champions League spots now as we were to the relegation zone at this point last season