Roberto Martinez discussion

[Dithering Dougie]

Regardless of who's played, they've been collapsing the instant the opposition show some spirit. And I won't even mention set-plays. Every game it's happened.

No excuses. They're paid top whack.

Stability is the key to any good defence, when you suffer so many crucial injuries its effects the whole team.

Once we get through this patch it will settle down and we'll look more assured and resolute.

 

[Lowste]

There should be an aspiration for it though. There's seasons where the whole top 4 have been locked out and fair enough that's hard to break without huge investment but this season Chelsea and United are throwing out a massive opportunity and we're not primed to take advantage. We're no longer even best of the rest, we're 9th maybe 10th.

I could buy an argument that we'll have a good run of form in the second half of the season and challenge but an argument that we should accept mediocrity every season to avoid disappointment seems counterintuitive for me.

Not arguing over accepting mediocrity as the barometer, all I am saying is we have to be realistic in our aspirations.

 

[deipnosophist]

Regardless of who's played, they've been collapsing the instant the opposition show some spirit. And I won't even mention set-plays. Every game it's happened.

No excuses. They're paid top whack.

This is the mental fragility I've talked about. It is undermining us because whilst RM's focus is pretty much only on attack, our attackers feel the fear our defensive unit has and so their game deteriorates.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

This team has been together for 2 and a half seasons with very little change. This click hasn't happened yet. These players will not be here next season. You do not get more than three seasons in the prem to create some success with this method.

I think we've been naive (at best) to think Stones and Lukaku will be here next season.

We needed/need a really strong season this season to have any hope.

Players move on, that's football. We'll rebuild If/when they move on.

What I will say though is - if we put too much emphasis on building for the future, the foundation you have can go.

When Moyes went I kept saying we needed evolution, not revolution. We already had an excellent core, we just needed a change in winning mentality, and a top striker and replacements for Pienaar and some creativity brought in which we lost in later years.

We have a young spine, but the average age of our starting 11 isn't any different to most of the Prem. Quick comparative of our starting 11 yesterday to two teams currently above us in the table;

 

[deipnosophist]

Not arguing over accepting mediocrity as the barometer, all I am saying is we have to be realistic in our aspirations.

Exactly. Talk of a CL spot just puts unnecessary burden on our team (increasing the fear our defenders already have).

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Stability is the key to any good defence, when you suffer so many crucial injuries its effects the whole team.

Once we get through this patch it will settle down and we'll look more assured and resolute.

Oh, alright then Mr Micawber. Let me know when it happens, because I can't see any sign of it happening soon.

No excuses. They've all got experience.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Exactly. Talk of a CL spot just puts unnecessary burden on our team (increasing the fear our defenders already have).

if they fear being talked up then they really ought to be playing alehouse level where they won't be noticed. WTF are they doing getting paid £000's per week?

 

[Lowste]

Damning evidence of Martinez's ineptitude and it's getting worse, yesterday for their goal, not a single player left the ground or attempted to clear the ball. Hard evidence that the players do not know their individual responsibilities at set plays and it is costing us dearly.

Not jumping is criminal, you can't blame the manager for that
The set up for the corner was good, a good corner but people not jumping undoes anything done in training

Sometimes players are to blame

 

[Furey1878]

I think we've been naive (at best) to think Stones and Lukaku will be here next season.

We needed/need a really strong season this season to have any hope.

Players move on, that's football. We'll rebuild If/when they move on.

What I will say though is - if we put too much emphasis on building for the future, the foundation you have can go.

When Moyes went I kept saying we needed evolution, not revolution. We already had an excellent core, we just needed a change in winning mentality, and a top striker and replacements for Pienaar and some creativity brought in which we lost in later years.

We have a young spine, but the average age of our starting 11 isn't any different to most of the Prem. Quick comparative of our starting 11 yesterday to two teams currently above us in the table;

View attachment 15936

It's still less than the ones you'v used as comparison despite having 4 players over 30 in our line-up. Which if anything only highlights the level of youth in the rest of our team.

 

[deipnosophist]

I think we've been naive (at best) to think Stones and Lukaku will be here next season.

We needed/need a really strong season this season to have any hope.

Players move on, that's football. We'll rebuild If/when they move on.

What I will say though is - if we put too much emphasis on building for the future, the foundation you have can go.

When Moyes went I kept saying we needed evolution, not revolution. We already had an excellent core, we just needed a change in winning mentality, and a top striker and replacements for Pienaar and some creativity brought in which we lost in later years.

We have a young spine, but the average age of our starting 11 isn't any different to most of the Prem. Quick comparative of our starting 11 yesterday to two teams currently above us in the table;

View attachment 15936

Whilst I agree that they'll be off , I would like to think we can get decent enough replacements to keep striving for Europa (and continue playing a decent brand of football).

 

[Everton 1878 NSNO]

Yeah I kind of think when the team talk of aspiring to champions league the form drops, when we predict easy matches we lose, when we have a chance to go above our rivals or closer to the top spots we choke, new manager won't fix that, there is a fear around Everton and they need to develop some mental toughness. People talk of snide players though anytime I see one of our players do something snidey to another player that whole team galvanises and beats us due to our fear when confronted.Get rid of the FEAR.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

Oh, alright then Mr Micawber. Let me know when it happens, because I can't see any sign of it happening soon.

No excuses. They've all got experience.

So you don't think a stable defence full of international footballers all highly experienced in this league is a better option than one full of young inexperienced kids or players straight of a plane from half way round the world?

 

[deipnosophist]

if they fear being talked up then they really ought to be playing alehouse level where they won't be noticed. WTF are they doing getting paid £000's per week?

Putting pressure on the players to attain something unrealistic (a CL spot) is not very helpful though, is it?

 

[Bluerover]

Everton's biggest weakness is how they are conceding shots. There's no way to sugar coat it. They are simply terrible at defending their own penalty box.

1. Everton are the worst team in the Premier League at winning aerial duels in their own third of the field, winning only 48.2 percent
2. second worst in their own penalty area at 45 percent.
3. Teams have completed 77 crosses against them, the fifth most in the league, at 23.8 percent, also the fifth highest.
4. Those crosses have resulted in 49 shots, that's the most shots conceded from crosses in the league, and
5. those shots have ended up in the back of the net 8 times, the second worst of any team.

http://www.espnfc.com/barclays-prem...watch-in-premier-league-with-roberto-martinez

Facts speak volumes !! (A little bit of editing in the presentation, Timak - hope you don't mind)

Sexy tippy tappy stuff without a good defence means we are bound to draw or lose loads of games despite winning the possession stats.

If this is true then Martinez will never be a top manager. Name me one top manager or top team that don't value their defence? If a manager came in and completely abandoned attacking in favour of a brilliant defence he'd be derided as a dinosaur. When it's the other way round though it's supposedly ok because some people like the media adulation regardless of league position.

We're supposed to be competing at the top end of one of the best league's in the world and we are indulging a championship standard keeper and a team that doesn't practise set pieces and have no conception of basic defensive aspects. Very very silly to be honest.

If we are to be within an ass's roar of competing at the top end of the League the stats from our League winning sides going back to 1962/3 are (all 42 game seasons btw):

1962/3 Won 25 Drew 11 Lost 6 GF 84 GA 42
1969/70 Won 29 Drew 8 Lost 5 GF 72 GA 34
1984/5 Won 28 Drew 6 Lost 8 GF 88 GA 43
1986/7 Won 26 Drew 8 Lost 8 GF 76 GA 31

At worst we conceded 50% of what we scored and at best we conceded 41%.

Martinez has the following League Record with Everton:

2015/16 (P 16) Won 5 Drew 8 Lost 3 GF 29 GA 21 Conceded 72% of what we scored
2014/15 (P38) Won 12 Drew 11 Lost 15 GF 48 GA 50 Conceded 104% of what we scored
2013/14 (P38) Won 21 Drew 9 Lost 8 GF 61 GA 39 Conceded 64% of what we scored


He HAS to learn that our defence must improve and some quotes after yesterday may be indicating the sound of pennies dropping.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

So you don't think a stable defence full of international footballers all highly experienced in this league is a better option than one full of young inexperienced kids or players straight of a plane from half way round the world?

Inexperience? How many games have they played now? Coleman's been here for 5-6 seasons, Stones is now an established centre-half, Mori (Can send a long ball but that's about it) has played top flight in Argentina and has played internationals, and Galloway - although he didn't play yesterday, but Baines DID - has played the majority of the season.

NO excuses.