Russia

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SpurtingLesbian said:
I think Turkey have created it mate, the rest of Nato have to come up with some way of continuing to do nothing but save face.
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The best way this can end is a profuse and fulsome apology from the Turks. What will probably happen is that Erdogan will do his usual hard man act but not do anything else to stoke the tensions up. What should happen is that they should be thrown out of NATO.
 

I wonder if the way out might be to call it an unnecessary action, get Turkey to say it was regretful but it had no choice given the clear warnings it had given and call for Russia to join NATO in concerted effort against ISIS and the sharing of approximate flight plan data so it won't happen again. Of course Russia will tell them to sod off but then they'll come out of it looking like the bad guy not NATO.
 
orchard said:
Do you really think so ? Imo, NATO or Turkey have created this situation, it's not as if there are heightened tensions and a Russian army on the border...
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Hahah
Russia plane inside Turkey ....Russian plane doesnt answer after 10 demands...gets shot down and it's Turkeys fault. Hah!

Well done Turks.
 

tsubaki said:
lol

Erdogan is a [Poor language removed] idiot. If NATO has any sense at all they should throw them out for this ludicrous act.

jet-397515.jpg


The above is the shocking invasion of Turkish territory that caused them to shoot the plane down. Both Russian pilots dead, apparently.
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All it needed was for Putin to ask permission of Turkey to overfly, or for the Pilots to obey Turkish instructions. It was simple arrogance by Putin. He doesn't overfly the UK, Germany or France, but thinks he can do as he wants with the likes of Turkey and the Baltic states etc. It's a terrible tragedy, especially as it could easily have been avoided, but that's what brinkmanship usually brings.........
 
peteblue said:
All it needed was for Putin to ask permission of Turkey to overfly, or for the Pilots to obey Turkish instructions. It was simple arrogance by Putin. He doesn't overfly the UK, Germany or France, but thinks he can do as he wants with the likes of Turkey and the Baltic states etc. It's a terrible tragedy, especially as it could easily have been avoided, but that's what brinkmanship usually brings.........
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Nonsense. This was at most (based on the Turk's own data shown above) a very minor breach that was over in seconds. Shooting down aircraft in those situations is something that only North Korea does nowadays; even the USSR at the height of the cold war used to wait until the breach was serious and repeated warnings had been ignored.

Also if you think that Erdogan would ever have given permission for the Russians to fly over, you are a mentalist. He didn't even let the Yanks use Incirlik until after the Suruc bombing.
 

Mr. White said:
Looking at google maps, this area of Turkey is maybe 2km across. At the speeds these jets fly at, it would have been in and out of Turkey in seconds.
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indeed, that was my point. It also could well be that they fired the missile that brought it down while it was actually in their airspace, but it took it a while/distance to catch up with it hence it coming down in Syria.

peteblue said:
All it needed was for Putin to ask permission of Turkey to overfly, or for the Pilots to obey Turkish instructions. It was simple arrogance by Putin. He doesn't overfly the UK, Germany or France, but thinks he can do as he wants with the likes of Turkey and the Baltic states etc. It's a terrible tragedy, especially as it could easily have been avoided, but that's what brinkmanship usually brings.........
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there have been an increasing number of UK Airspace violations in the last few years which have resulted in planes being scrambled to escort Russian planes out of our Airspace. It's generally seen as Putin sabre-rattling reminding everyone he's still got the capability, or in real terms being an arse.

Only yesterday a Russian Sub was spotted off Scotland in British waters. Putin making his presence known.
 
SpurtingLesbian said:
indeed, that was my point. It also could well be that they fired the missile that brought it down while it was actually in their airspace, but it took it a while/distance to catch up with it hence it coming down in Syria.



there have been an increasing number of UK Airspace violations in the last few years which have resulted in planes being scrambled to escort Russian planes out of our Airspace. It's generally seen as Putin sabre-rattling reminding everyone he's still got the capability, or in real terms being an arse.

Only yesterday a Russian Sub was spotted off Scotland in British waters. Putin making his presence known.
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And they always switch off their transponders. When they flew up the English Channel the other month they caused massive disruption to civil aircraft. He's a pain in the arse.......
 
tsubaki said:
Nonsense. This was at most (based on the Turk's own data shown above) a very minor breach that was over in seconds. Shooting down aircraft in those situations is something that only North Korea does nowadays; even the USSR at the height of the cold war used to wait until the breach was serious and repeated warnings had been ignored.

Also if you think that Erdogan would ever have given permission for the Russians to fly over, you are a mentalist. He didn't even let the Yanks use Incirlik until after the Suruc bombing.
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"Last month incursions by Russian warplanes into Turkish air space prompted the US and its Nato allies to issue a blunt warning that the alliance would respond militarily if Moscow continued with what Nato leaders called “unacceptable violations of Turkish air space.”
Mr Putin should have realised that, this time, Nato was serious, especially as Turkey is deeply unhappy about Russia’s military intervention in support of Assad, Ankara’s long-standing enemy. But the Russian leader has got so used to Western leaders making dire threats and then doing nothing – as happened during the Crimea crisis – that, so far as Turkey was concerned, he could continue to push his luck."

It's his own fault.......if any country overflew any part of Russia without permission the same thing would happen....he knows the rules.......
 
peteblue said:
"Last month incursions by Russian warplanes into Turkish air space prompted the US and its Nato allies to issue a blunt warning that the alliance would respond militarily if Moscow continued with what Nato leaders called “unacceptable violations of Turkish air space.”
Mr Putin should have realised that, this time, Nato was serious, especially as Turkey is deeply unhappy about Russia’s military intervention in support of Assad, Ankara’s long-standing enemy. But the Russian leader has got so used to Western leaders making dire threats and then doing nothing – as happened during the Crimea crisis – that, so far as Turkey was concerned, he could continue to push his luck."

It's his own fault.......if any country overflew any part of Russia without permission the same thing would happen....he knows the rules.......
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Airspace violations happen all the time; almost no-one shoots first any more. As for why Ankara is deeply unhappy, given who they have been supporting - and who they have been bombing - we should really be deeply unhappy at them.
 
Hmmm things just got funky. I suspect that Russia has been bombing Turkish-supported FSA and Turkmen rebel groups along the Syria/Turkish border, Old Erdogan didn't like it so first chance they get they whack an SU-24. I heard that the aircrew were also killed by the rebel groups as well.

Putin can't complain though - he's been warned about it before...maybe he should stick to bombing ISIL and leave the anti-Assad posse alone.
 

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