John Stones transfer saga

[The Esk]

On the latter: you believe it's a dangerous game to play (continually selling it's assets like this) with a view to maximizing a sale price for the club. I'm not sure really

It really is a dangerous game. I have offered to buy businesses from asset strippers and almost always they want their cake and eat it.

The shareholders are currently "having their cake" by not contributing financially to the development of the business.

In an environment where the capex required, by a future incumbent, to compete grows almost exponentially it's really difficult to see them (the current shareholders) being offered "their cake" as well.

Selling Stones makes this strategy more risky in my view.

 

[davek]

I think you are right about a small victory. It's like the way people carried on about keeping Baines. The reality was the asking price wasn't met and had it have been he'd have been sold.

The reality is, any statement of keeping Stones would merely be postponing the decision to next summer. There will be no investment, no ambition shows to match what he would want. A top team would go and sign 3-4 top players and make it clear to Stones we want him to be a part of that.

The only counter to that, is if we keep Stones for another year it gives us a years successional planning time. Presumably MOri will take a little time to adapt to the league. Likewise with primarily Browning/Galloway they are probably a season off being ready to be first team starters. Likewise we'd be a year further down the line with Holgate/Pennington/Kenny.
Essentially we would be in a better position to see how strong or weak we are in that department. I could see us moving for Jonny Evans on a free transfer tbh.

How do you think Martinez sees this situation? Do you think we have a Walter Smith scenario on our hands when Fergusan left?
I don't think he envisaged losing Stones at all, given we let Distin and Alcaraz go, and he'd have looked to move on Barkley/McCarthy/Coleman/Mirallas ahead of him.

Kenwright is now playing with fire on this one. It only makes sense to have left it this late if they were planning to keep him, or alternatively were confident they could get replacements in quickly.

A small part of me will die if I see Martinez on September 3rd telling us about the phenomenal talents of Evans/Fazio.

I know I suggested some weeks ago this would play on on the last day, with us signing Evans, Lennon and an Austin/Yarmalenko type signing with Stones going out. It is looking more likely.

Martinez wont walk. He's not a drama queen and he's too professional. I'm pretty sure he'll have been told incoming cash would fund his transfer money this summer (his statement early in the window about late signings tend to underline that) so this fits in. I dont think he bargained for it to go down to the wire though. He has to be concerned. He always says re windows: we'll leave stronger than we entered them. Well he has an uphill struggle in that respect. I do wonder if he's dealing with owners now dragging their feet and being unhelpful on targets. That's my worry.

We'll see when we get this snake out of the club and receive the money from his sale. But the tick of the clock is deafening now.

 

[jinkyali]

Martinez says all sorts of guff, mate. Short of saying "I will resign if he's sold" I think it will all be forgotten.

Sorry but I have to politely disagree on this; you would be implicating Martinez happy to sell that way.

 

[Tchnique]

This is poor from Stones, way too late in the window. We have to sit him down and get a gentlemans agreement in place where he sits tight plays for us and we'll let him go if he still wants to in the summer. Fergie did a similar thing with Ronaldo before he left united. If we accept this request it sends out the wrong message to our other young diamonds. I can see Lukuka following suit next season if we don't deal with this properly.

Suarez too.

It doesn't make sense to sell him.

You sit down Stones and lay this out. You're going to get first team, week in-week out football here. Chelsea simply cannot offer that right now. They aren't going to play you in tough CL matches in a place like Madrid, Barcelona, Turin, etc. You play well, act like a stand up lad, and you'll get your England chance. Guess what happens then John? Chelsea may offer you more money on the contract. Maybe Chelsea isn't the only team offering you. Maybe it's United, City or maybe a team abroad.

It doesn't make sense for you to go now. Play the season out and see where that takes us.

 

[toffeestillidie]

I sniff a club plot here. Stones is asked to hand in a transfer request even though he doesn't want to, we wait a few days and then he withdraws it and makes a personal pledge to Everton. In the avalanching feelgood factor that follows, Roberto will say it is just like a new signing, then transfer deadline day quietly ticks past and we do no business.

Get me fooled anyway!

"Stonesy, we need you to hand in a transfer request."

"Why? Are you going to sell me to Chelsea?"

"No, you're going to withdraw it in a few days. Your reputation will take a huge hit but we'll look good"

"Why would I even consider doing that?"

 

[RFUS]

Sorry but I have to politely disagree on this; you would be implicating Martinez happy to sell that way.

I don't think Martinez will be happy at all, but I also don't think he's been as concrete over this situation as you seem to think.

Just my opinion though. I loathe the board, and would not put it past them. Time will (hopefully) tell what's really gone on.

 

[jinkyali]

It really is a dangerous game. I have offered to buy businesses from asset strippers and almost always they want their cake and eat it.

The shareholders are "having their cake" by not contributing financially to the development of the business.

In an environment where the capex required, by a future incumbent, to compete grows almost exponentially it's really difficult to see them (the current shareholders) being offered "their cake" as well.

Selling Stones makes this strategy more risky in my view.

This to an absolute tee.

We continue to sell our best 'assets' i.e. the players and what can a future investor/purchaser actually purchase? Nowt.

 

[Efc 9911]

Man Utd in stunning Chelsea hijack with Phil Jones on offer for Everton star John Stones
MANCHESTER UNITED will attempt to hijack Chelsea's deal for John Stones by offering Phil Jones in exchange, according to reports.
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...rton-John-Stones-Everton-Transfer-News-Gossip

I bloody hope that's true. If he leaves, I would much rather it be to united

 

[Tchnique]

"Stonesy, we need you to hand in a transfer request."

"Why? Are you going to sell me to Chelsea?"

"No, you're going to withdraw it in a few days. Your reputation will take a huge hit but we'll look good"

"Why would I even consider doing that?"

"Haven't thought that through yet. But it's a stand up plan."

 

[Bigmaclad]

Can this just be over in some capacity so that we can all move on in some capacity - the not having a clue what's going on is driving me nuts

 

[Tchnique]

I bloody hope that's true. If he leaves, I would much rather it be to united

I'd do anything to spite Mourinho at this point.

 

[jinkyali]

I don't think Martinez will be happy at all, but I also don't think he's been as concrete over this situation as you seem to think.

Just my opinion though. I loathe the board, and would not put it past them. Time will (hopefully) tell what's really gone on.

Martinez rejected Villa and Liverpool due to board intervention in what would have been his playing squad.

 

[terraloon]

@terraloon

Unclean hands doctrine. Stones cannot claim equitable relief from his contract if he acts in bad faith by refusing to play or train.

Of course he can't buta number on here suggest that to teach him a lesson as it where he should be banished to the reserves or whatever and in those circumstances and assuming he didn't refuse to play and or train or even if he did and the club hadn't followed the correct discipliary process then he would be able to walk away

 

[Bigmaclad]

Martinez says all sorts of guff, mate. Short of saying "I will resign if he's sold" I think it will all be forgotten.

"Phenomenal potential" for even the worst ever footballers ever (Alcaraz)

 

[blueblue]

That's optimistic really. I think there is a lot on the line for this one for Kenwright really. To have let it get so late while still insisting he won't sell will look very weak if we sold right at the last minute, particularly if it wasn't considered an out of this world offer (say 50 million).

I can't see us being able to get deals across the line to spend 40 million pounds even if we get it, and we know money tends to disappear between September to January. I am very worried if we were to relent on Stones, this season would be marred by an inexperienced defence, and fans understandably questioning the clubs approach.

Agree with everything you say.
Hopefully Stones will at least maintain his value which gives Everton another two years before they seriously have to think about a new contract or a sale.
The contract Stones is on is probably modest enough considering that it was signed when he wasn't really established, Everton really are in a strong position for once.

I think that he won't be sold this window but a gentlemans agreement put in place that for a certain fee(40M-50M) that he will be allowed to leave next year.
Stones plays one more for Everton, which isn't really a chore for him,Everton have twelve months to replace him and other clubs can come into the reckoning if they wish.