Everton Youth Teams Thread

[toffeejack]

3-4 years before Dowell is a starter? So 20-21-years old? Sorry but that's absurd, what's he going to do for the next 3-4 years? If you're good enough, you're old enough. Look at players like Max Meyer etc. coming through and becoming important first team players at their clubs. I think I'd be disappointed if he's not consistently in the first team squad next season (2016/17).

big step up - i've never seen him. he may be on the fringes for next season or two - but won't slot in as a starter, especially if we're looking at that position as our big signing.

 

[Raino85]

Thanks mate. To answer your question we just have to be cautious a little. As I have tried to say throughout, having talented 16 year olds is one thing, ensuring they are talented 21 year olds like Stones/Barkley is another. At 16 they are really only 20% of the way there, and how hard they work between 16-21 will make a huge difference. The only 16 year old I've ever seen who was good enough to be a pro at that age was Rooney.

That being said, we do have a very talented set of young players. It is as strong as any age group we've had post 98, and possibly strongest we've had since the 60's. There is a very real possibility that we could see half a dozen premier league players from our under 18's crop.

The key for me though is going to be is a manager willing to make spaces available for them in the first team. For a player to break through he needs to take the place of someone in the squad. When Fergusan brought through his crop, he moved on Kanchelskis, Hughes and Ince one summer. Mclair and Parker followed shortly after. There are a lot of people calling for transfers but I am very easy about our business and don't think we need another 4 or 5 players, as they will only get in the way of our young players.

As I've said above though, it is by no means certain we'll get any first team starters. A big part of it is going to depend on whether they continue the development. I have to say I've been very impressed with Unsworth in this. He looks a calming influence on them and is very willing to play young teams at the expense of sacrificing winning games. We are using the loan market well. Martinez has to take some credit too, as he is controlling the system from above and pro-actively looking to get players out on loan and involved in the first team.

That's the second part of the equation, will Martinez have confidence to draft them in. That's my biggest reason for hoping Martinez succeeds. He is willing to give the younger players a chance. However he needs to feel confident in his job to be able to introduce them, and not take the easy option of playing older pro's. What would be awful would be to move Martinez on and abandon our focus in youth, and move towards a much more first team orientated manager.

Love this post!
100% agree with the comment re: needing spaces in the 1st team squad, which is why im not panicking about signings, in fact id like to get our senior squad size down a little more to accommodate a few of these youngsters so they can take the next step.
The way the premier league is now days with the money etc it will soon turn into la liga were barca and real dominate and out spend everyone and get the best players.
We are in danger of losing our identity as another also ran so why not try doing something special e.g Lisbon lions, Ajax 95

 

[catcherintherye]

Love this post!
100% agree with the comment re: needing spaces in the 1st team squad, which is why im not panicking about signings, in fact id like to get our senior squad size down a little more to accommodate a few of these youngsters so they can take the next step.
The way the premier league is now days with the money etc it will soon turn into la liga were barca and real dominate and out spend everyone and get the best players.
We are in danger of losing our identity as another also ran so why not try doing something special e.g Lisbon lions, Ajax 95

Thank you mate.

I agree with you entirely. I am very calm about our signings currently. We could do with another centre half and a number 10. However beyond that we are very well covered. In all honesty I would not be disappointed if we lost any of McGeady, Kone, Hibbert and Gibson without needing replacements. If we don't sign any players, I think Browning will be more than adequate to step in as may Galloway and Pennington in defence.

To replicate either Ajax or Celtic will be very difficult. The Ajax model is a useful one for us to follow though where they give lots of young players an opportunity. It should also free funds for us to spend on big name signings as and when we need them.

 

[mightymoyes]

Thank you mate.

I agree with you entirely. I am very calm about our signings currently. We could do with another centre half and a number 10. However beyond that we are very well covered. In all honesty I would not be disappointed if we lost any of McGeady, Kone, Hibbert and Gibson without needing replacements. If we don't sign any players, I think Browning will be more than adequate to step in as may Galloway and Pennington in defence.

To replicate either Ajax or Celtic will be very difficult. The Ajax model is a useful one for us to follow though where they give lots of young players an opportunity. It should also free funds for us to spend on big name signings as and when we need them.

we defenitely need a striker in. real shame duffus got that serious injury, he was apparently impressing martinez in training and might have been on the bench.

 

[Nymzee]

big step up - i've never seen him. he may be on the fringes for next season or two - but won't slot in as a starter, especially if we're looking at that position as our big signing.

Never seen Dowell or Meyer? Ross broke into our first team at 19-years old so I don't really see any reason to let Dowell get to 20/21 before he's integrated into our starting XI - bearing in mind he keeps progressing. It'd be a serious waste of potential and potentially money if we buy a player that could have been him in the starting team.

 

[toffeejack]

There's a high degree of realism on this thread about the likely numbers who will make it , the requirements and pitfalls. If we look at numbers, and try to put some logic to it. Last July we took on 15, 16 year old scholars, 7 are playing regularly at u21 level for us , a good "conversion rate". We had 8 play for England u17s or 18s last season.(Some overlap there re Scholars) . About 2 years ago we had 5 in the England u20 squad, Stones, Barkley , Garbutt, Lundstrum, Long. Two have become full internationals , 2 hopefully will make a living at a lower level, Garbutt has a high chance of making it with us too. Says 50% conversion rate from England U20 's to Everton first team? Take the 8 u17/u18s (Ledson, Kenny,Connolly, Dowell, Walsh, Davies, Yates, Holland). There is a fair chance of 7 of those making u20s for England, I haven't seen enough of Holland to convince me yet, so then maybe only 50%, 3 or 4 ,going on to play regularly for us. In many ways that seems harsh given their talent but would be fantastic if we achieved it. Then you add in the likes of Antonee Robinson,Evans at 16 and a couple of Welsh/Irish international prospects and who knows.

I used the "International players" scenario to balance that these are not just "overrated by our coaches". But using the fact that they play u17/18 for England could be flawed too. At youth level, England play very much in the Everton style so I think our young players fit in very easily. Kenny, Connolly and Yates when I've seen them for England are very much attacking full backs , bombing down the wings , delivering crosses just as they've been taught too..Tom Davies at U17 for England was almost a replica of the way Ledson had played the year before in a defensive midfield role . We're turning good young players into very good young players for their age group. Is it the coaching which is superior for their age or the players themselves ? Does England/Everton playing similar styles also help? Time will tell. But watching the likes of Browning, Galloway and Pennington look so comfortable on the ball when going forward the other night you've got to believe we are getting it right up through the ages. There are a lot of talented young attacking defenders out there but maybe only Luke Shaw and Carl Jenkinson to compare with our crop if you include Stones and Garbutt.

would be frustrated to be english - they seem to produce exciting youth teams, but bang way too much pressure on them when it comes to full internationals and hire dull coaches like capello and hodgson that make them utter dirge to watch. they've always been boring for as long as i remember.

can't really tell at a time like this whether they'll make it of course, we've seen so many vaughan's, branch's, cadermarteri's etc. anything can happen which can ruin potential development. i have a good feeling anyway, with feet on the ground. just need to let them be kids and progress slightly under the radar rather than having cameras and high pressure at early ages, regardless of how great this all is to read and watch.

then again, the pressure will stand them in better stead for the future. playing in the premier league must be massive pressure.

 

[Furey1878]

Robinson, Pennington and Ledson all starting after making appearances for the first team last night. Dowell isn't starting or on the bench.

He had am impressive display against Dundee and we've got 2 matches in as many days on the weekend. I've no doubt the manager will reward him with another match against either Leeds or Villareal.

 

[toffeejack]

The analogy I made was with Royle in 97. He got sacked prematurely and the club spiralled. It probably took a decade, and 5 years of steady building under Moyes to get us back to that point again. I always look back at what could have been with Royle. Still a young manager, with an FA cup Youth Winning team around the corner.

The number 1 priority for any potential Everton manager has to be how will they use the academy. Martinez has done this very well. If he went I would hope we'd look to get a De Boer in (I also wanted Tuchel but unlikely he is at Dortmund now). However the likelihood is we'd end up with a Mark Hughes type manager.

What is exciting for these young players is they can see they are being given a chance which is driving competition and performance up. When Dowell does well for the first team half a dozen will think they have that opportunity. He is getting players into the team currently, like Browning and Pennington who were not even that highly thought of as under 18's. We probably have 7-8 under 18's who are ahead of those two when they were 18 so it really does bode well.

good competition is key for progression. what pleases me is the fact we're not scared to get 17/18 year olds up playing in the u21's competing with guys that age. keeping people in their age bracket is a mistake - because it's not reflective of top flight football.

 

[toffeejack]

Never seen Dowell or Meyer? Ross broke into our first team at 19-years old so I don't really see any reason to let Dowell get to 20/21 before he's integrated into our starting XI - bearing in mind he keeps progressing. It'd be a serious waste of potential and potentially money if we buy a player that could have been him in the starting team.

i live in cardiff haha hard to watch the u21's. i watch the highlights on OS and read this thread but missed the dundee game sadly.

but that's not enough to form a basis on. anyway, reports seem good, i think he'll be in the squad next season for sure, maybe we'll sell naismith as well to accomodate. But i just think we'll spend big money on a playmaker in the next few weeks and then he'll be limited for starting places hence what i said.

 

[Raino85]

Thank you mate.

I agree with you entirely. I am very calm about our signings currently. We could do with another centre half and a number 10. However beyond that we are very well covered. In all honesty I would not be disappointed if we lost any of McGeady, Kone, Hibbert and Gibson without needing replacements. If we don't sign any players, I think Browning will be more than adequate to step in as may Galloway and Pennington in defence.

To replicate either Ajax or Celtic will be very difficult. The Ajax model is a useful one for us to follow though where they give lots of young players an opportunity. It should also free funds for us to spend on big name signings as and when we need them.

I think us having Hibbert as back up this year (probably his last) is the reason we have sent Kenny straight out on loan as bobby see's him as a straight in replacement as back up right back and then further down the line to replace Coleman.
Watching them last night compared to how I have seen them in and around the first team they seem a lot better with a few more experienced heads around them so it is always good to have that mix. And as you say bring in a marquee signing if or when a little push is needed

 

[steele]

After seen Dowell in pre-season I would say he is ready for a substitute role this season. Same as when Barkley come through the ranks.

 

[blueloon]

would be frustrated to be english - they seem to produce exciting youth teams, but bang way too much pressure on them when it comes to full .

Their youth teams are more competitive than Wales and Ireland, but as they are weaker our Welsh and Irish youngsters are likely to get experience earlier e.g. Of the recent scholars Ryan Harrington has played for Wales u17 and Shayne Lavery for N Ireland u17 and I think Charsley was on the bench for one of Ireland's u21 match recently. You should look at S4C if Wales youth team are playing, they may show games with Everton involvement.

 

[LinekersLegs]

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2015/07/30/lessons-learned-for-under21s
A slight knock to the leg saw forward David Henen replaced by Calum Dyson with just 35 minutes played at Prenton Park but Unsworth also confirmed that the Belgian had only been withdrawn as a precaution.

“He’s fine,” he insisted. “It was precautionary. We have been very lucky with injuries. Sam Byrne is back on Thursday and his was a precaution too. There’s nothing to worry about there.”

 

[Scolari]

Thank you mate.

I agree with you entirely. I am very calm about our signings currently. We could do with another centre half and a number 10. However beyond that we are very well covered. In all honesty I would not be disappointed if we lost any of McGeady, Kone, Hibbert and Gibson without needing replacements. If we don't sign any players, I think Browning will be more than adequate to step in as may Galloway and Pennington in defence.

To replicate either Ajax or Celtic will be very difficult. The Ajax model is a useful one for us to follow though where they give lots of young players an opportunity. It should also free funds for us to spend on big name signings as and when we need them.

Agree with what you are saying about trimming the first team squad down abit, I would personally much rather see us with 16-17 quality senior players with the remainder of the squad made up with youngsters. Currently we have 10-11 quality senior players with the squad made up of average players on good money.

 

[formerly manx toffee]

There is a good article on toffeeweb. I won't link it. That talks about Liam Walsh. He is not one I have heard much hype on on here but sounded as though he is rated highly.

Any of you guys who watch the youth teams have a view on him ?