2015 post UK election discussion

[peteblue]

I didn't say independent - I said regional authorities splitting away from London to collectively create a new nation.

It's impractical I know, but when you get a political party who decimates central funding and doesn't replace it at all with the private enterprise they trumpet, people will think what's the point of staying.

As for the bold bit, do you seriously think Merseyside wouldn't try that if it were on the table??? As I said the other day, the N/S Divide exists because of a lack of private investment up north as a direct result of largely Tory led actions centralising on London, while cutting the state support disproportionately up north at the same time.

The Tories keep trying to de-centralise our country. Labour keep centralising it and then doling out money as they see fit.........'we know best'..........

 

[Tubey]

The Tories keep trying to de-centralise our country. Labour keep centralising it and then doling out money as they see fit.........'we know best'..........

That is not true and you must know it, unless you mean in terms of the state.

The Tories are for the status quo in keeping the City of London strong at the cost of everything else. They shrink the state closer to London every time they are in, and the north is shat on.

If they wanted to de-centralise, you do it by offering state support to the north and less to the south, to combat the inequality in private enterprise - then you adjust and encourage private enterprise regionally with the greater infrastructure in these regenerated areas through central funding.

 

[peteblue]

That is not true and you must know it, unless you mean in terms of the state.

The Tories are for the status quo in keeping the City of London strong at the cost of everything else. They shrink the state closer to London every time they are in, and the north is shat on.

If they wanted to de-centralise, you do it by offering state support to the north and less to the south, to combat the inequality in private enterprise - then you adjust and encourage private enterprise regionally with the greater infrastructure in these regenerated areas through central funding.

And when you go to Liverpool, and every man, politician and his dog shouts 'fck off Tory Scum', it really makes them feel welcome..........it's time that Liverpool Politicians grew up, put aside their animosity and started getting right into the centre of Westminster Politics to do the best for the people of the North West..........

 

[Mrk]

Ha ha. You've got to be joking. They've gone out of their way to spread fear amongst the English and isolate the Scots. They have effectively campaigned on the Scots being an illegitimate part of the Union with out the right to have a voice at Westminster and they continue to do so.
Of course they're now already starting to blame Labour. David Davis just been on the BBC saying that it is Gordon Brown's fault that the Scots want independence and will continue to do so. They're already preparing for it happening and their next negative election campaign.
A disgusting way to run the country.

I'm sorry, but on this occasion you are simply arguing in the face of facts. As I said previously, even though you may have a low opinion of the Tories, you really do need to remove the blinkers on this particular issue and understand the reality.

The Tories have campaigned against every single attempt to remove Scottish MP's from Westminster, they are a Unionist party, that means the union, even with all its imperfections, is of the upmost importance to them.

As for their campaign, you couldn't have misread it more if you tried. They aren't suggesting for a second that Scotland have less legitimacy, their campaign was simply that the SNP's only tangible objective is to create an independent Scotland, so them in power with Labour would have brought the chances of devo-max/independence ever closer.

In the past 24 hours I've found myself defending Socialism and the Tories. Maybe I need a break.

 

[AndyC]

One thing is for sure, if there were a Scottish referendum tomorrow, it'd be a resounding win for the "Yes" vote. And a lot of unionists from within England who wanted them to stay and fight for fairness within the union now could not blame them in the slightest.

I'm not as sure as you are about that and having just watched Nicola Sturgeon on the Andrew Marr show state quite strongly that she ran the SNP campaign on the anti-austerity ticket and not independence, she will keep her powder very dry on calling for another referendum, at least until beyond the Scottish Parliament elections next year.

 

[edge]

Well that's one way for Merseyside to be well and truly screwed. Or, just for a change, as doing the same thing over and over doesn't seem to have worked, maybe Merseyside could try working with a Conservative Government to become one of the proposed Northern Powerhouses. Nah, won't happen, Merseyside politicians will fight them tooth and nail, feel sorry for themselves, while Manchester takes a pragmatic view and totally and utterly replaces what was once the greatest city of the North...........

you have just seen that before the election when they tried to get an mersey region thing together, softshite wools didnt want to be overshadowed by liverpool so fooked it up, only way anything would happen half decent is if liverpool brought, Sefton ,Knowsley, Huyton into the city making it miles bigger than manchester and getting are birthright back as the number 1 city in the north west and sell it as so, and tell the others to sit on it ,
Greater manchester and its parteners have ran rings round us for decades.

 

[Tubey]

And when you go to Liverpool, and every man, politician and his dog shouts 'fck off Tory Scum', it really makes them feel welcome..........it's time that Liverpool Politicians grew up, put aside their animosity and started getting right into the centre of Westminster Politics to do the best for the people of the North West..........

*sigh*

Absolutely pony that I'm afraid. The onus isn't on the people of Merseyside to change, it's on the Tories.

Look, I'll sum it up in a succinct way:

A. A part of the country is basically a barren wasteland, nothing there except a few islands of wealth in a sea of poverty.
B. Another part of the country is structured exclusively for big investment and offers everything a private enterprise needs.

Question: Where is a new company to Britain going to set up?

Next question:

The financially barren part of the country needs to attract new enterprise. How does it do this?

A. Start saying nice things to the Tories and cross their fingers?
B. Receive funding to improve infrastructure, increase the skilled workforce and offer a desirable place to do business?


Now assuming the answers to both questions are 'B', how do you turn that on its head?

The funding to do it has to come from somewhere. So instead of cutting the north, how about investing in it.

 

[daylightrobber]

I'm not sure I agree with right to buy either as its another government run scheme. I don't know the details of what you're doing so I'll slightly modify my position based on what you've said and simply say while I have reservations I also accept it might be a good thing.

Its a fantastic thing. For everyone. For just one trail of benefit, it guarantees young families can continue to live in the area, which means there continues to be need for schools and other amenities, which protects jobs, which support a more diverse range of local business. No might about it.

 

[Mrk]

Oh absolutely. And that's the single biggest problem facing the UK today. These socialists ideas would disappear if proper investment spread out across the UK instead of in one localised area.

The Scots would be fooked going it alone, and I argued FOR the Union strongly during the referendum for that very reason. But the way the Tories win hearts and minds should be helping these areas, not crushing the foot down on them more.

I agree. I think the Tories are their own worst enemies. It'd be so, so easy for them to win back support in the North and reverse the trend we've seen since the 60's.

 

[Tubey]

I agree. I think the Tories are their own worst enemies. It'd be so, so easy for them to win back support in the North and reverse the trend we've seen since the 60's.

I wouldn't say it would be easy, but it'd require a different mindset - basically, stop thinking of the north as an enemy, and more as an opportunity.

That's why I see kicking the poor areas of the country even further when they're down is just encouraging unrest and is unnecessary. Yes, as a political party you play to your home audience, but surely cutting the state in areas where things are comfortable due to private investment filling the gap - the "Big Society" in action, as it were - is a damn sight better an idea than cutting the state in areas where state support is literally all it has going for it right now?

 

[peteblue]

you have just seen that before the election when they tried to get an mersey region thing together, softshite wools didnt want to be overshadowed by liverpool so fooked it up, only way anything would happen half decent is if liverpool brought, Sefton ,Knowsley, Huyton into the city making it miles bigger than manchester and getting are birthright back as the number 1 city in the north west and sell it as so, and tell the others to sit on it ,
Greater manchester and its parteners have ran rings round us for decades.

Exactly. And a reason they couldn't do it was because of petty politics between all of the Labour groups. They are in danger of missing the boat. I agree that extending the city boundaries would be a good way to do it. Another would be to allow one of the other Labour leaders the opportunity to be the Mayor, but Anderson won't allow that......

 

[Mrk]

I wouldn't say it would be easy, but it'd require a different mindset - basically, stop thinking of the north as an enemy, and more as an opportunity.

That's why I see kicking the poor areas of the country even further when they're down is just encouraging unrest and is unnecessary. Yes, as a political party you play to your home audience, but surely cutting the state in areas where things are comfortable due to private investment filling the gap - the "Big Society" in action, as it were - is a damn sight better an idea than cutting the state in areas where state support is literally all it has going for it right now?

The problem with the Tories is they like the image they have as economically competent heartless toffs and I don't think there is any appetite to change it.

The future of the Tories will be decided by the next leader. Will they continue the long slog towards Liberalism with a Cameron-esque leader or will they go back to good old Conservatism?

Personally, I hope it's the former.

 

[Tubey]

Exactly. And a reason they couldn't do it was because of petty politics between all of the Labour groups. They are in danger of missing the boat. I agree that extending the city boundaries would be a good way to do it. Another would be to allow one of the other Labour leaders the opportunity to be the Mayor, but Anderson won't allow that......

Haha what boat? Would you like to point me towards this "HMS Enterprise" please? hahaha

 

[peteblue]

I wouldn't say it would be easy, but it'd require a different mindset - basically, stop thinking of the north as an enemy, and more as an opportunity.

That's why I see kicking the poor areas of the country even further when they're down is just encouraging unrest and is unnecessary. Yes, as a political party you play to your home audience, but surely cutting the state in areas where things are comfortable due to private investment filling the gap - the "Big Society" in action, as it were - is a damn sight better an idea than cutting the state in areas where state support is literally all it has going for it right now?

And yet when they put Michael Heseltine (probably no2 in government) in as Minister for Liverpool, specifically to help sort the place out, they still got reviled and abused.......

 

[peteblue]

Haha what boat? Would you like to point me towards this "HMS Enterprise" please? hahaha

The Conservatives have made clear that they want to devolve further power and spending to cities and urban areas, but not via Combined Authorities.

Greater Manchester is getting more powers and cash via a so-called metro mayor - but in Merseyside only Mayor Anderson supports the idea.

On Monday Chancellor George Osborne claimed his door was “still open” to Mr Anderson over talks about a Metro Mayor and more powers for Merseyside.

Mayor Anderson if necessary, he would seek more powers for Liverpool alone.

He said: “I’m going to be arguing to George Osborne that Liverpool has got a mayoral system and we need more fiscal devolution and more powers to actually do more ourselves.