Relegation Fight 2014/2015

[Ronnie lee]

I believe we will survive relegation JUST!!!...can not believe we have played so so badly this season it seems to be getting worse then better, need a big overhaul of the club in the closed season!!.

 

[MD 1989]

Like Steven Naismith but is it just me that has the thought since he come a major part of the starting 11 that our football hasn't been as sexy maybe him dropped Barkley back in and mirallas & Lennon/mcgeady/atsu on the wings

 

[Khalekan]

We won't go down....thanks to 4 teams who will struggle to get 34/35 points.

But I do worry about what impact the league position could have in the summer, both in terms of players wanting to move on(not the players we want to) and the impact it could have on our transfer budget. We must have budgeted for top 8 or top 10 minimum surely?

I wouldn't be too worried about players wanting to move so long as we stay up.

There is not one player in that squad who would get a starting position in a better team than we are now.

They would be refuced to sitting on the be nch st the likes of Spurs or Arsenal and getting a start in the C1 Cup.

 

[Sahira]

I wouldn't be too worried about players wanting to move so long as we stay up.

There is not one player in that squad who would get a starting position in a better team than we are now.

They would be refuced to sitting on the be nch st the likes of Spurs or Arsenal and getting a start in the C1 Cup.

Exactly. KM and Lukaku may want out. But with the fee payed and the number of years left on his contract, no way he will be leaving.

 

[Steve0]

Tbh who would want Lukaku after this season anyway? Still think he's gong to be a good player but the CL clubs are hardly going to be falling over themselves to sign him. Mirallas is too inconsistent and injury prone to be massively in demand either.

 

[catcherintherye]

Of course. No comparison. We shouldn't be struggling as badly as they were.

The big difference is that back then you knew even if we did survive we'd be back there or thereabouts again next season. With this team we pretty much know it's got potential to achieve because they are the same group essentially as those who played in Martinez's first season.

Yes I agree 100% and that was the point I was making really. Honestly what did people expect when we were reliant at times on having 3 or 4 teenagers in the first team?

You are also correct that while there's no doubt we overachieved last season this current set up we have has a lot of talent. We have a brilliant group of players under 25 and theoretically some good internationals to go alongside them. I think this is what people who are in the Martinez out camp miss, that I am certainly not saying we are playing well this season, and Martinez shoulders a lot of that responsibility.

However like Moyes was, he is a young manager who is learning. A thoughtful man, and like Moyes I back him to come through this experience a better manager. Obviously if he is still making the same mistakes 10 years later then there will be a justifiable cause for concern. If people are honest even Moyes's harshest criticism would say he was right to be given a chance to mould a team in his image in the first 5 seasons. With Moyes the issues came, that even after 10 the same problem would occur.

Just as Moyes had to be given time to build his team, Martinez deserves the chance to build his. As you have said we won't be struggling next season, and if we are then ultimately it will probably be time for him to go. However I think he's shown himself to be astute. Signings like Besic, Robles and McCarthy have shown us he can find good young players who he can mould. We need more of that.

As people keep saying, Barkley, Besic, Lukaku, Stones, McCarthy, Coleman, Garbutt, Oviedo are (almost) all under 25 and potential to be very good, some to be world class. There are other promising young players Martinez will feed in. Of the above Martinez has either signed them all, or alternatively brought them on. He is that sort of manager that looks to improve players. Obviously you factor in Jagielka, Baines, Naismith and you have some decent experienced pro's to go alongside them.

Why hasn't it worked this season? Well in part because experienced pro's, the likes of Distin, Howard, Eto and Mirallas have not only under performed but have acted in a very unprofessional manner. That has meant a lot of the younger lads have been over exposed and their presence has eroded Martinez's authority. We need to bin them off in the summer. A bit like how it was for Moyes post Rooney/Radzinski etc then it will feel like a weight is lifted.

Alternatively we could sack Martinez. Nobody would argue this season has been a car crash, and he shoulders a lot of the blame for it. (In no small part for not tackling some of the senior pros). What worries with that though, is we go from being a talented team to one in chaos and it could plunge us back to the 90's in a similar way to how it went when Royle left. The senior pros don't get moved on, and we lose some of the younger lads instead.
The situation is delicate currently. We are in a mess. I always thought we would have this moment after Moyes left. Getting rid of Martinez won't get rid of the mess and the structural problems we face, it may exacerbate them.

Also playing hoofball is not going to magically start meaning Mirallas is banging the goals in or Howard stops making cock ups.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Its time for the old lady to roar against Newcastle.

 

[4737carlin]

I wouldn't be too worried about players wanting to move so long as we stay up.

There is not one player in that squad who would get a starting position in a better team than we are now.

They would be refuced to sitting on the be nch st the likes of Spurs or Arsenal and getting a start in the C1 Cup.

True this to an extent, Stones would and Mirallas might be the only other, but i don't think he is as good as he might think he is. Coleman, despite not having a good season might still get a decent side looking for him, the rest of them no chance unless we either sell them off cheap and a few sides fancy a punt.

 

[davek]

Yes I agree 100% and that was the point I was making really. Honestly what did people expect when we were reliant at times on having 3 or 4 teenagers in the first team?

You are also correct that while there's no doubt we overachieved last season this current set up we have has a lot of talent. We have a brilliant group of players under 25 and theoretically some good internationals to go alongside them. I think this is what people who are in the Martinez out camp miss, that I am certainly not saying we are playing well this season, and Martinez shoulders a lot of that responsibility.

However like Moyes was, he is a young manager who is learning. A thoughtful man, and like Moyes I back him to come through this experience a better manager. Obviously if he is still making the same mistakes 10 years later then there will be a justifiable cause for concern. If people are honest even Moyes's harshest criticism would say he was right to be given a chance to mould a team in his image in the first 5 seasons. With Moyes the issues came, that even after 10 the same problem would occur.

Just as Moyes had to be given time to build his team, Martinez deserves the chance to build his. As you have said we won't be struggling next season, and if we are then ultimately it will probably be time for him to go. However I think he's shown himself to be astute. Signings like Besic, Robles and McCarthy have shown us he can find good young players who he can mould. We need more of that.

As people keep saying, Barkley, Besic, Lukaku, Stones, McCarthy, Coleman, Garbutt, Oviedo are (almost) all under 25 and potential to be very good, some to be world class. There are other promising young players Martinez will feed in. Of the above Martinez has either signed them all, or alternatively brought them on. He is that sort of manager that looks to improve players. Obviously you factor in Jagielka, Baines, Naismith and you have some decent experienced pro's to go alongside them.

Why hasn't it worked this season? Well in part because experienced pro's, the likes of Distin, Howard, Eto and Mirallas have not only under performed but have acted in a very unprofessional manner. That has meant a lot of the younger lads have been over exposed and their presence has eroded Martinez's authority. We need to bin them off in the summer. A bit like how it was for Moyes post Rooney/Radzinski etc then it will feel like a weight is lifted.

Alternatively we could sack Martinez. Nobody would argue this season has been a car crash, and he shoulders a lot of the blame for it. (In no small part for not tackling some of the senior pros). What worries with that though, is we go from being a talented team to one in chaos and it could plunge us back to the 90's in a similar way to how it went when Royle left. The senior pros don't get moved on, and we lose some of the younger lads instead.
The situation is delicate currently. We are in a mess. I always thought we would have this moment after Moyes left. Getting rid of Martinez won't get rid of the mess and the structural problems we face, it may exacerbate them.

Also playing hoofball is not going to magically start meaning Mirallas is banging the goals in or Howard stops making cock ups.

Great post mate.

I agree completely that although it seems miles away atm, we are tantalisingly close to having a very decent squad of 20 players for the first time in years. If we can just get past this hump we can draw on all this next season and really have a go.

 

[catcherintherye]

Great post mate.

I agree completely that although it seems miles away atm, we are tantalisingly close to having a very decent squad of 20 players for the first time in years. If we can just get past this hump we can draw on all this next season and really have a go.

Thank you. We are but the worry is getting rid of Martinez could set us back years. I think everyone at the club, from fans, to manager to players just need the season to end. Martinez then needs to go away and consider where it went wrong and learn from it.

The players need to go away. Some need to be moved on. Others probably need to stop getting beat most weeks (the younger ones). A lot probably just need a break from the managers voice and the constant negativity. For some like Lukaku they need to go away and think about their game.

It's very hard to reflect when you are playing games every 3 or 4 days. I have faith in Martinez to go away and learn from his experience. He's not a Bruce or an Allardyce who it's his way or the high way. At present he looks like a man out of control and completely lost.

As for the fans, we are all rightly cheesed off. We will lose lots more games to the end of the season. It's really shitty and we could do with a break too.

Lets just hope we can get to the end of the season, finish as close to half way as possible, with hopefully the added carrot of getting further in the Europa league to cheer the fans up.

 

[bobafro]

Like Steven Naismith but is it just me that has the thought since he come a major part of the starting 11 that our football hasn't been as sexy maybe him dropped Barkley back in and mirallas & Lennon/mcgeady/atsu on the wings

From looking at Barkleys performances this season, I don't think he deserves a starting 11 place right now.

 

[blue61]

Its time for the old lady to roar against Newcastle.

It needs to, my fear is going behind early on will produce a toxic atmosphere.

 

[MD 1989]

From looking at Barkleys performances this season, I don't think he deserves a starting 11 place right now.

I understand that barkleys performances have been bad this season but putting him out wide to have accommodate Naismith in the starting 11 is not helping him, am not saying anythink bad about Naismith but Ross needs to bein the team either cam or cm not on the wing of that means Naismith on the bench its the best thing for the team

 

[StatesideBlue3]

Like Steven Naismith but is it just me that has the thought since he come a major part of the starting 11 that our football hasn't been as sexy maybe him dropped Barkley back in and mirallas & Lennon/mcgeady/atsu on the wings

The problem is none of those guys, especially Barkley, have done anything to seize the job from him yet this year.

 

[MD 1989]

The problem is none of those guys, especially Barkley, have done anything to seize the job from him yet this year.

He's distrubting us playing that flowing football of last season we havnt been as good since he come a focal point of the team that's what am thinking at the moment am a fan of naismiths the only player with a abit of passion in his play along side Besic but we need barkleys ability rather tha naismiths gritt to open up defences