Tim Howard

Kurt. · February 23, 2015

PeterPrinciple said:
The point you are responding to is merely a defense to the point above. No worries. it's just debate over football. The facts say that Joel has not been significantly better when in this season. Everyone's opinion says otherwise.

I believe Joel came in and started quite shakily but visibly grew in confidence game by game, he was commanding, controlling, calm and the defence seemed to be at ease knowing he was there..... A compete contrast to what Howard is doing. That's my opinion though, not fact.

Goat · February 23, 2015

PeterPrinciple said:
But to get back on topic, Howard...what happened- is it age? I know he was never great, but he was certainly EPL level. Is he just a tad slow? That will usually cost you power on parrays or cause you to deflect a ball you used to collect. Is that what we are seeing here? Did he not take care of his body? Plenty of less athletic keepers lasted longer. Is it because he always relied on athleticism and now that is faltering? What will it take to get rid of him then? MLS is the only hope to pay right?

Its nothing to do with age, hes been making mistake his whole career, it was the main reason United sold him.

RaleighBlue · February 23, 2015

Very bad.

Doesn't seem to be getting better.

Martinez's insistence on sticking with Howard is my biggest worry this season. Even moreso than the whole 1 winger thing or sticking with Barry. If he's not dropped soon I'll probably begin seriously questioning the man.

Robles hasn't shown himself to be great, but Howard makes absolutely terrible mistakes that lead to dropped points, a top flight goalkeeper can't gift teams multiple goals and they certainly can't gift multiple teams multiple goals. And they're all so predictable, just float stuff into our box and hope it falls to the right player after Howard flaps at it. Do it enough, and it will happen.

IllinoisBlue · February 23, 2015

We do not have a Premier League standard keeper at this club. We have 2 keepers who are 2nd choice at best. This is frustrating and fueling arguments between fans about which one should be playing. In reality neither of them should be playing, and we shouldn't be arguing about one vs the other because who would care which of them is sitting on the bench waiting for our first choice keeper to get injured. So that has to be down to the club management for not bringing in a first choice keeper. In my opinion.

Goat · February 23, 2015

IllinoisBlue said:
We do not have a Premier League standard keeper at this club. We have 2 keepers who are 2nd choice at best. This is frustrating and fueling arguments between fans about which one should be playing. In reality neither of them should be playing, and we shouldn't be arguing about one vs the other because who would care which of them is sitting on the bench waiting for our first choice keeper to get injured. So that has to be down to the club management for not bringing in a first choice keeper. In my opinion.

Yes but 1 of them has proven over a number of years that they are defo 100% not worthy.
The other is a young Keeper who could possibly improve.

Kurt. · February 23, 2015

IllinoisBlue said:
We do not have a Premier League standard keeper at this club. We have 2 keepers who are 2nd choice at best. This is frustrating and fueling arguments between fans about which one should be playing. In reality neither of them should be playing, and we shouldn't be arguing about one vs the other because who would care which of them is sitting on the bench waiting for our first choice keeper to get injured. So that has to be down to the club management for not bringing in a first choice keeper. In my opinion.

You see, I don't see how you can reach that conclusion having only seen Joel play 8 ? Games.... 3 of which were clean sheets..... I think its knee jerk tbh

Goat · February 23, 2015

Kurt said:
You see, I don't see how you can reach that conclusion having only seen Joel play 8 ? Games.... 3 of which were clean sheets..... I think its knee jerk tbh

Its the way they are going Kurt, trying to distract us with Joels teeth.

Dont fall for it.

Theres oil in them teeth.

PeterPrinciple · February 23, 2015

I think he has been weak in the air his whole career, but the power on his parries (is that how you pluralize that word) and his ability to collect were never so bad. And even had they been, he lasted 10 years or so as at least a mid level GK in the EPL ( I mean he was on the PFA team in 2004) and carried his international team almost on his own in that time. Has the EPL improved that much? Is it a combination? What about the beard, should we be investigating it?

Goat · February 23, 2015

Ive been moaning for the last 5 years that he doesnt control his area, its not just a short time thing, his box control is worse than chicos mar.

Bungle · February 23, 2015

Whilst I'm not convinced Joel is the long term solution, he came in and gained a load of confidence and was in great form. A lot of my goodwill towards Martinez disappeared as soon as he then bought Howard back into the side at the first opportunity, and yesterday just proves what a terrible decision it was.

He's a liability and is going to cost us more points this season because Martinez doesn't have the bollocks to drop him.

Goat · February 23, 2015

I think im in the minority tho personally, I think it was the right choice to bring Howard back in, sadly it wasnt.

Big Fat Sam · February 23, 2015

Just furious that Howard was shooed straight back in despite being awful this season and Robles being absolutely fine in his absence. Not saying Robles was world class or anything, but Howard has been BAD, and Robles was not bad. He got better in the games he played and what a way to ruin his confidence by publically saying Howard it the top dog and it's his position to lose. It should be whoever is on form, and Howard hasn't been on form all season, whereas Robles looked fine and deserved the chance to have a run in the side. Terrible, terrible management imo.

JAYTALITY · February 23, 2015

PeterPrinciple said:
Ouch. The American thing again eh. In this same thread I have called for Joel and expressed my disapoiontment that he proved me so wrong yesterday. If anything I was defending the manager's choice to return Howard at the time not Howard's play.

I'm just a bit more pragmatic about football situations, or willing to let an established pattern of player play be broken by a new established pattern rather than by isolated events before binning them. You will see a similar tone to my treatment of players like Barry(still floundering) or Baines (seemed to be getting back on track) or Mirallas (who is well less established than Howard had been). If there is fault with my sensibilities it lies there, not in the place I happened to have escaped the womb in.

Robles mostly performed on par with Howard (both which would be considered unacceptable) except for the three game clean sheet stretch. In that stretch Everton faced two bad teams and Liverpool. He was basically untested in the two matches against bad sides and in fact was beaten in a manner that Howard (or whomever the "number 1" is) would have been derided for. All that is fact. Yet that was enough to turn the tide.

Howard

But he was tested. He caught and held most balls that came into the box. His distribution was great and so was his communication. He also pulled of a few saves. He commanded the box well and was a great presence. You're also saying Robles played two bad teams. Then what type of team is Liecster? Howard has been terrible all season. If I didn't know you were American I would be very puzzled to why your defending him getting a game over Robles.

Kieno · February 23, 2015

Kurt said:
I believe Joel came in and started quite shakily but visibly grew in confidence game by game, he was commanding, controlling, calm and the defence seemed to be at ease knowing he was there..... A compete contrast to what Howard is doing. That's my opinion though, not fact.

Actually, I think it is fact!

banno · February 23, 2015

Howard defo needs dropping. His form is not good enough and he doesn't instill confidence in the defence. Saying that, the defence were not good yesterday and don't know how to mark closely and wisely. Don't know if the appearance of Howard back in goal makes the defence go to pot as they clearly don't have confidence in him. Robles back for next game I hope then I won't sh!t myself everytime a cross goes in.