Yes or No: post WBA result should Martinez be sacked?

post WBA result: should Martinez be sacked?

  • Yes

    Votes: 238 37.4%
  • No

    Votes: 399 62.6%

  • Total voters
    637
  • Poll closed .
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"But he's ruined Moyes' team!"

Howard - 36 in a few months.
Baines - 30
Jagielka - 32
Distin - 37
Hibbert - 34 next month.
Osman - 34 in a few months.
Pienaar - 33 in a few months.

Add to that Barry 34, plays every game, and Kone 31, in the squad.

This whole squad needs rebuilding with younger players. The core group - Moyes boys - are all either past their peak or finished.

Martinez has made and continues to make major mistakes - but he's inherited an aging team/squad, with an aging spine.
 

He signed Barry, Kone, and Alcaraz for a combined £6 million. Distin, Howard, and Osman all looked fine before this season (and two out of three are on pretty short term deals), Hibbert's actually looked alright at RB and all four players are good veterans to have around the club. I'm not sure how much money you think we have, but signing young talent is expensive – Cresswell for instance may end up costing West Ham as much as £7 million, which is £7 million more than we spent on signing Alcaraz and keeping Distin.

Do you think wages, loan fees and signing on fees come for free?
 
"But he's ruined Moyes' team!"

Howard - 36 in a few months.
Baines - 30
Jagielka - 32
Distin - 37
Hibbert - 34 next month.
Osman - 34 in a few months.
Pienaar - 33 in a few months.

Add to that Barry 34, plays every game, and Kone 31, in the squad.

This whole squad needs rebuilding with younger players. The core group - Moyes boys - are all either past their peak or finished.

Martinez has made and continues to make major mistakes - but he's inherited an aging team/squad, with an aging spine.

His signings have made the squad OLDER!!!!

that's totally forgetting that he's given these ageing players new contracts.
 
He signed Barry, Kone, and Alcaraz for a combined £6 million. Distin, Howard, and Osman all looked fine before this season (and two out of three are on pretty short term deals), Hibbert's actually looked alright at RB and all four players are good veterans to have around the club. I'm not sure how much money you think we have, but signing young talent is expensive – Cresswell for instance may end up costing West Ham as much as £7 million, which is £7 million more than we spent on signing Alcaraz and keeping Distin.

That is the issue. On one hand you said the squad is ageing. On the other hand, you said they were okay last season so contracts were handing out to these senior players. I would not call a two year contract is short-term for two 33 years old players. And buying overpriced young British players is not a way out for a club like Everton.

The money issue is even more clear. Martinez doesn't really have to sell before buying new players is he?The net spend is positive which is a miracle in Moyes' years.
 
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What's so infuriating about it? Koné, Alcaraz, Barry and Eto'o were all signed by Martinez. He also handed out new contracts to Osman, Distin and Howard. Also, I'm not trying to bash Martinez, but certainly a part of the blame lies with the manager? That of course is my opinion, whether or not you agree with it is up to you. Infuriating comment though, I think not.

It's infuriating because it pushes this BS narrative that everything was roses until Martinez showed up, and that he didn't inherit a bare bones squad with an aging core. It also suggests that Martinez brought this upon himself, like he had a huge budget to invest in lots of young players but instead chose to go with Kone, Alcaraz, Barry and Eto'o (or even more ridiculous, like there were four young players of that quality that he could get for a combined £6 million, once again about the cost of Cresswell's transfer fee).

At the beginning of last season, our only defensive midfielder was Darron Gibson, our main attacking threat was Marouane Fellaini, and our two strikers were a confidence-less Jelavic and Victor Anichebe. Our only backup CB with any Premier League experience was Johnny Heitinga. We were so desperate for warm bodies the previous season, we brought in Thomas Hitzlsperger. It's a joke to suggest that Martinez inherited a solid foundation from Moyes and an even bigger one to suggest that Martinez somehow brought this upon himself by signing cheap, older stopgaps, so that our team might consist of more than 11 players.
 
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If we can get the poll to 60% NO then I reckon those voting YES must do the right thing and leave the forum for a couple of weeks.
Sure as eggs are eggs that'll happen.

The failed plotters won't go away though. Their mission is to cause instability. They'll keep on and on until it's apparent it isnt happening this season. Then they'll go away and lick their wounds and start again at the first sign of trouble if it comes next season.

What a ****ing pointless existence.
 
"But he's ruined Moyes' team!"

Howard - 36 in a few months.
Baines - 30
Jagielka - 32
Distin - 37
Hibbert - 34 next month.
Osman - 34 in a few months.
Pienaar - 33 in a few months.

Add to that Barry 34, plays every game, and Kone 31, in the squad.

This whole squad needs rebuilding with younger players. The core group - Moyes boys - are all either past their peak or finished.

Martinez has made and continues to make major mistakes - but he's inherited an aging team/squad, with an aging spine.

Gibson (is he still here?) - 27
Oviedo - 25 next month
Mirallas - 27
Naismith - 28
Barkley - 21
Coleman - 26
Stones - 21 in a few months

My point is that you can always list the older and younger players as a group. It was not Moyes handing new deals to Hibbert, Osman and Distin while signing Barry, Kone and Alcaraz at the same time.

I don't really buy into the idea of rebuilding as Martinez has time to think last year whether the current squad has enough young players or not.
 
It's infuriating because it pushes this BS narrative that everything was roses until Martinez showed up, and that he didn't inherit a bare bones squad with an aging core. It also suggests that Martinez brought this upon himself, like he had a huge budget to invest in lots of young players but instead chose to go with Kone, Alcaraz, Barry and Eto'o (or even more ridiculous, like there were four young players of that quality that he could get for a combined £6 million, once again less than the cost of Cresswell).

At the beginning of last season, our only defensive midfielder was Darron Gibson, our main attacking threat was Marouane Fellaini, and our two strikers were a confidence-less Jelavic and Victor Anichebe. Our only true backup CB was Johnny Heitinga. We were so desperate for warm bodies, we brought in Thomas Hitzlsperger. It's a joke to suggest that Martinez inherited a solid foundation from Moyes and an even bigger one to suggest that Martinez somehow brought this upon himself by signing cheap, older stopgaps, so that our team might consist of more than 11 players.

The biggest budget of any Everton manager ever and he has increased the average age of the squad.
 
Just wonder if 1 or 2 of the bottom sides go on a bit of a run(unlikely) what people will think then. I think he is being given the benefit of the doubt by some because we probably wont go down, but for me the penalty debacle and players laughing at him on the bench say's to me the players don't rate him at all.
 

His signings have made the squad OLDER!!!!

that's totally forgetting that he's given these ageing players new contracts.

They've made the squad older, but Alcaraz doesn't play every game & neither does Kone.

I'm not defending Martinez, but let's not pretend we wouldn't have major problems even if he wasn't manager.
 
The biggest budget of any Everton manager ever and he has increased the average age of the squad.

I think my brain is going to explode.

YES, I GET IT, ROBERTO SIGNED SOME OLD PLAYERS TO INCREASE DEPTH. HE ALSO INHERITED A SQUAD WITH NO BACK UP CENTRAL MIDFIELDERS, JOHNNY HEITINGA AS OUR ONLY BACK UP CB, VELLIOS AS A REGULARLY CONSIDERED OPTION UP TOP, AND PHIL NEVILLE AS A WING MIDFIELDER.

You're like a kid who moans to his parents that he doesn't have a car and then complains when they get him a 2002 BMW. Sure it's not in the shape that it once was, but it's still a BMW, and it's better than having nothing.

Not to mention the fact that he's signed Besic, McCarthy, Lukaku, Galloway, Henen, all 24 and younger. But seriously, keep pushing this narrative that he unnecessarily signed a bunch of old players.
 
I voted no, but it's mainly because I can't bring myself to vote yes, were evertonians, we get behind our manager and give them time etc.

However, right now, I'm not sure the above sentiments really help everton. An everton that is more important than any sponsor, fan, player, manager or chairman. The truth is, right now it's a shambles. The players don't appear to have a clue what they are doing and neither do the management. After 3 matches were we could at least take some positives from (albeit we didn't actually win any of them), last nights performance was back to how bad it was over Christmas. The only positive is we didn't concede (but west brom had no interest in scoring) and we didn't lose ( west brom didn't show much interest in winning). Oh, and besic, Oviedo and stones put in a decent shift.

The tippy tappy, football, going nowhere was back. What happened to the meeting when the players asked to be a bit more direct? Second half, we were a bit more direct, but it was just aimless balls to lukaku.

So now the slight progress of the last few weeks has come undone, what do people see going forward? Can anyone, hand on heart, see us getting anything away at Palace? I can't. Be shocked if we managed a point.

Maybe the derby match can galvanise us, just like city? However, I don't think we go into the derby with nothing to lose like the city match, the ground will be terrified. I could see an everton team in poor form getting up for the city match and getting something. I can't see it happening against them. I know city are a better team, much better, and form go's out of the window with derby's. But I just don't see it.

Even if we turn up for the derby and get something what then? Last night we showed a complete inability to build upon the progress that had been made.

A few weeks ago, when we had west ham, city and west brom coming up, I said I would give him till the west brom match. What I hoped to see was a progression of positive performances, culminating in 3 points last night. He has half achieved that, but equally half failed. He still couldn't win any of them.

I'm sick of excuses. The poor form was because of bad eggs in the dressing room. The players and management had a meeting and things were supposed to improve. Well, it's still crap.

I was brought up seeing everton in relegation fights. It's horrible to watch, constantly dreading the drop. But, moyes took us away from that and made us a consistent top 7 team. Martinez inherited a consistent top 7 team. We now look like relegation candidates. The football is that bad, don't kid yourself.

Would Tottenham or Liverpool accept this? A few points of the relegation zone in January with terrible form? No, they wouldn't.

With the previous few weeks he has probably bought himself time. But this club can not afford to be dragged into a relegation fight. For me, he gets the palace match and possibly the derby to show signs of improvement. It pains me to give home the derby, as I remember the Joe Royle derby and how it started something big.

Right now, he still has my backing, just. But if I'm honest, I can't see him turning it around. Other than trotting out the line how good he was last year, I would like to hear from fellow blues, what have you seen that gives you real hope that he will turn it around?
 
Maybe we should add a poll were we can only vote 'No'? This forum has always been about opinions. Sad to see that those who dare to question Martinez are considered lesser Evertonians. And no I don't know what the answer is and I'm undecided about our manager atm. However, anyone who thinks that our current situation is acceptable should never again use 'Nil Satis Nisi Optimum ' as a stick to beat our club with.
 
They've made the squad older, but Alcaraz doesn't play every game & neither does Kone.

I'm not defending Martinez, but let's not pretend we wouldn't have major problems even if he wasn't manager.

Sorry I'm confused, you're saying the fact that his signings haven't played games is a positive for the manager?
 

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