The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[Clint Planet]

1. Denmark, 2. Australia, 3. Norway, 4. Finland, 5. Canada, 6. Sweden, 7. Germany, 8. Spain, 9. France, and 10. USA

What do these countries do that we don't?

The problem is endemic in British society. The class system in this country is unique in the developed world. Sadly, the model of jolly good ruling class chaps commanding a skilled and proud workng class is long broken (and it was never that healthy a model anyway). What we're left with is a morally bankrupt ruling class, scrambling to keep their position and feather their nests at the expense of the disenfranchised. The ruling class demonises the oiks, calling them lazy whilst excluding them from the real political process and fleecing them whenever possible. We live in a world where the government can gift the rich a few billion by underselling the Royal Mail whist libraries and and A&E units are closed down.

 

[Woolly Blue]

It is incredibly difficult to get anyone to value something that they themselves have not benefited from.

Hence if the parent has not benefited from education then it is unlikely that they will pass any value of education onto their children.

That is the challenge that teachers in the state system face.

At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man, it's not always been like that. My parents had jack all in terms of formal education but knew the value of it. Many people of my age were the first generation in their families to do the whole college / university thing so we've lost something somewhere.

I have no idea what the answer is though.

 

[Groucho]

At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man, it's not always been like that. My parents had jack all in terms of formal education but knew the value of it. Many people of my age were the first generation in their families to do the whole college / university thing so we've lost something somewhere.

I have no idea what the answer is though.

Go back to free university places.

 

[L4Everton]

Go back to free university places.

All for it on one condition, worthwhile degree courses that are passed sufficiently. Fail it, pay for it.

 

[Groucho]

All for it on one condition, worthwhile degree courses that are passed sufficiently. Fail it, pay for it.

I see your point, but that would deter too many, and would've deterred me. Those who couldn't afford to take the risk, wouldn't.

 

[The Esk]

At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man, it's not always been like that. My parents had jack all in terms of formal education but knew the value of it. Many people of my age were the first generation in their families to do the whole college / university thing so we've lost something somewhere.

I have no idea what the answer is though.

Sure, I accept entirely that some see education as a means of advancement, regardless of the impact (or not) it had on them, but I do not think this applies to the majority.

I was the first member of my extended family to go to University, but to be honest that had little to do with my parents even though ultimately they were delighted I went there.

My Dad's view was that educated or not, class structures determined progress not ability.

 

[Woolly Blue]

Go back to free university places.

True, the whole tuition fees thing has been pretty much a disaster. On the flip side, the % of people that now go to uni is much higher than it was 30 years ago so the overall bill would be much higher. I'd say the removal of EMA funding of students going to sixth form is at least a big a stumbling block and probably more so.

 

[bluemangroup]

The top 10 in terms of social mobility are:

1. Denmark, 2. Australia, 3. Norway, 4. Finland, 5. Canada, 6. Sweden, 7. Germany, 8. Spain, 9. France, and 10. USA

What do these countries do that we don't?

1. Bacon
2. Spiders
3. Kopites
4. Seal Clubbing Rum drinking bad motherlovers.
5. Maple Syrup
6. Swedish Meatballs
7. Bloody great big industrial regions, sausages, holocaust guilt and football
8. Tapas and bullfighting.
9. A beautiful language, horrendous cuisine and some right odd ways of looking at things.
10. Diabetes.

 

[Groucho]

True, the whole tuition fees thing has been pretty much a disaster. On the flip side, the % of people that now go to uni is much higher than it was 30 years ago so the overall bill would be much higher. I'd say the removal of EMA funding of students going to sixth form is at least a big a stumbling block and probably more so.

A modern scholarship system? To prove that you were worth it?

 

[L4Everton]

I see your point, but that would deter too many, and would've deterred me. Those who couldn't afford to take the risk, wouldn't.

This is not a flippant reply. I was of the understanding that we dont want to sell or to have education thought of as a risk. I'm all for subsidising medical and nursing degrees on the condition that once passed well enough the graduate works 5 years in the nhs. There are a number of areas where similar could be expected. I dont want anyone frozen out, but I'm not overly keen on having every chancer and waster drift through a few years of uni getting bladdered and sti's with nothing on the other side of it but a tab John Q tax payer picks up.

 

[EverBlue86]

Yes, yes, but what do you think? To me, it's obvious. There is a modern day underclass who have been all but abandoned by the ruling class. It suits the short-term-ist political aims of the establishment (tories, big business, etc...) to keep them politically illiterate, molified by plasma screens and quad bikes and socially immobile. The long term costs, however, are catastrophic.

I see bright, hopeful kids every day who are hostage to their own dreadful social circumstances. Fat mums in onesies who pick their kids up late from school, half-stoned at 3:30. Intelligent but angry kids who keep goetting into trouble because their life is upside down and all over the place.

No amount of private projects will solve their problems. Ultimately, the government alone has the power to make the necessary change. And yet - constantly - it doesn't. Poverty as a political decision.

I tell you, this country is totally up the junction. Depressing.

What we do is stop these idiots from reproducing, too many layabouts who are trapped yet happy in the welfare system, I am a fan of keeping benefits and all but the young mums you see at 21 with 3 kids living off the dole for the rest of their days with no intention of working/having a stable family should be sterilised

 

[The Cowboy]

Go back to free university places.

Nah. Degrees are old school. They should be discouraged. We need a whole new range of scholarships and apprenticeships, integrate education with employment. We need to develop people for specific occupations, not just people with a general body of knowledge in a certain field but utterly unspecialised.

Certainly shouldn't be free either. In this day and age it would just encourage a vast swathe of freeloading slackers looking for a 3-year jolly at the nation's expense.

 

[Groucho]

This is not a flippant reply. I was of the understanding that we dont want to sell or to have education thought of as a risk. I'm all for subsidising medical and nursing degrees on the condition that once passed well enough the graduate works 5 years in the nhs. There are a number of areas where similar could be expected. I dont want anyone frozen out, but I'm not overly keen on having every chancer and waster drift through a few years of uni getting bladdered and sti's with nothing on the other side of it but a tab John Q tax payer picks up.

That's fair enough, I don't think anyone does, really.

While at university, I also worked two 12 hour shifts at the weekend, so not everyone is a waster. Today's youngsters don't know they're born.

 

[L4Everton]

That's fair enough, I don't think anyone does, really.

While at university, I also worked two 12 hour shifts at the weekend, so not everyone is a waster. Today's youngsters don't know they're born.

It wasn't an accusation pardon me, more a recognition of wastrels sat about doing a degree in modern dance or art history (like HRH). The sciences ought to be prioritised. All formats of engineering. Medicine, research, next gen technologies. Someone doing ancient Greek or Archiology - I just don't see all that much use for the new fangled fancy pants here today gone tomorrow degrees. A lot of those have been called in these past few years to a decade.
There was and is a way to make higher education work for the tax payer as well as the recipient, even if it means partially subsidised degrees in low uptake fields or higher rates or paying back of student debt.
Having been around a few campuses it was noticable how many foreign students were about, but they were state sponsored which meant the respective universities were pulling over £20k a year per student....

Edit: So what degree did you do, what did you get for it, and what did you do twice weekendly for 12 hours at a time? please no 'yer ma, yer ma again for seconds and yer ma twice weekendly' answers if you please.

 

[Walken]

What we do is stop these idiots from reproducing, too many layabouts who are trapped yet happy in the welfare system, I am a fan of keeping benefits and all but the young mums you see at 21 with 3 kids living off the dole for the rest of their days with no intention of working/having a stable family should be sterilised

Whats your feelings on immigration mate, you sound like a real unique thinker