Nick Clegg V Nigel Farage.
- Thread starter EFC David
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dholliday
deconstructed rep
you're giving Islam way too much credit.
It's a backwards outdated primitive religion, but it still offers guidance for strong family unity and the surrender-of-self so that's why it's not died out yet. It's not unified in purpose in any meaningful global way. And it doesn't attack or invade lands it considers other. This is why it's considered the religion of peace.
The threats from Islamic terrorism are the birthchild of American/Isreali (and before that Soviet, and before that British) foreign policy.
Thought Experiment:
You are an Afghani villager, a reasonably uneducated and religious family man. How would you feel when bombs rain down on your village, killing your family? There's not much you can do, for even if you did manage to shoot down one of those drones, it would come down unmanned anyway. That's hardly hurting the aggressor, that's not gonna make him stop. You see powerfully-armed foreign men dressed in military wander in the village sometimes, asking questions about people you used to know. Sometimes they repair roads and bridges and appear quite friendly. You're quite sure they're related to the bombs that drop, but they never say it openly, and neither do you. You don't trust them, that's for sure. You've heard about a Freedom Fighter Training Camp, and heard this may help you fight back and avenge the deaths of your fallen.
...a while later...
Now you are so mighty you are feared by the most advanced military the world has ever seen. You scare over 300 million people who don't even know your story. Even the President of this mighty superpower talks about you in serious hushed tones, fearing your wrath.
That's how mighty you have become. Mohammad would be very proud. You've done good work, one step closer to stopping the bombs and the foreign military men. You praise Allah.
Question:
Who is responsible for giving this inconsequential poor man so much power? and why?
The answer is the same reason why vague threats from a 1500-year old book are being amplified to create even more fear. It has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with The Power Of Nightmares.
It's a backwards outdated primitive religion, but it still offers guidance for strong family unity and the surrender-of-self so that's why it's not died out yet. It's not unified in purpose in any meaningful global way. And it doesn't attack or invade lands it considers other. This is why it's considered the religion of peace.
The threats from Islamic terrorism are the birthchild of American/Isreali (and before that Soviet, and before that British) foreign policy.
Thought Experiment:
You are an Afghani villager, a reasonably uneducated and religious family man. How would you feel when bombs rain down on your village, killing your family? There's not much you can do, for even if you did manage to shoot down one of those drones, it would come down unmanned anyway. That's hardly hurting the aggressor, that's not gonna make him stop. You see powerfully-armed foreign men dressed in military wander in the village sometimes, asking questions about people you used to know. Sometimes they repair roads and bridges and appear quite friendly. You're quite sure they're related to the bombs that drop, but they never say it openly, and neither do you. You don't trust them, that's for sure. You've heard about a Freedom Fighter Training Camp, and heard this may help you fight back and avenge the deaths of your fallen.
...a while later...
Now you are so mighty you are feared by the most advanced military the world has ever seen. You scare over 300 million people who don't even know your story. Even the President of this mighty superpower talks about you in serious hushed tones, fearing your wrath.
That's how mighty you have become. Mohammad would be very proud. You've done good work, one step closer to stopping the bombs and the foreign military men. You praise Allah.
Question:
Who is responsible for giving this inconsequential poor man so much power? and why?
The answer is the same reason why vague threats from a 1500-year old book are being amplified to create even more fear. It has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with The Power Of Nightmares.
Last edited:
It isn't. It only says that violence as self defence is applicable. It is VERY clear that violence as an aggressor is forbidden. Key passages below; the second specifically the reason why they are dead set against Israel:
You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.
You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers.
There it is in black and white. The extremists interpret their actions as self-defence and are willfully misinterpreting the Quran by doing so with their actions in the west with 9/11. But the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and interpret their holy book wisely.
That's why we don't have millions of Muslims reaching for pitchforks FFS.
Only when taken out of context.
For example:
And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter... and fight them until fitnah is no more, and religion is for Allah.
If taken on face value, that is condoning the murder of non-believers. However, when key words are bolded:
And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter... and fight them until fitnah is no more, and religion is for Allah.
Therefore, it's only condoning violence in regions where they were fought against first, and only condones it until that "stress" (fitnah) is gone.
The majority of key Islamic passages clearly do not condone aggression. The very word Islam means submission, and the followers of Islam, Muslims, are "submitters". It is by very definition a religion of peace. The sole reason for violent insertions in the Qur'an is to dictate to self-defence. It has been bastardised by extremist elements with other agendas. In short, terrorism and extremism have absolutely nothing to do with Islam when looked at properly - they follow their own very separate code.
And that's the problem - you label Islam as a whole with the same values the terrorists and extremists have, when they are chalk and cheese.
L4Everton
Player Valuation: £30m
Hearing about these two tarts dukeing it out I had pictured in my mind the many brawls in poxy soaps like Eastenders or Coronation street between the likes of Diedrie and Bet or Sharon and Eileen.
Incomprehensible know nothing no-chancers.
The drubbing the Lib Dems are on for is going to be marvellous, and as for the other ass wipe pretending to be the protest vote of choice - he isn't fooling anyone.
Incomprehensible know nothing no-chancers.
The drubbing the Lib Dems are on for is going to be marvellous, and as for the other ass wipe pretending to be the protest vote of choice - he isn't fooling anyone.
dholliday
deconstructed rep
So if everyone's crap, who do the people actually vote for?
Steve0
Player Valuation: £35m
Most of them have been proven wrong tbf.
L4Everton
Player Valuation: £30m
Because the powerhouses of modern politics are all such wastrels, "the people" should demand more. "None of the above" is a good start or put the real frighteners on the aristocracy and put the Greens in.
dholliday
deconstructed rep
Sounds like you'd vote for Russell Brand, mate.
By the way I agree with you, I think they're all samey bland fake rubbish. There's no distinction not just in the Eton-lite cleanshaven neat-haircut early-40's appearance of them all, but also in their policies, mannerisms, untrustworthyness and selfishness.
Toffeelover
Player Valuation: £80m
Bruce you still cannot biuild the house sitting at home in front of a computer.
doesnt that kind of defeat your argument about the Quran being a specifically violence inducing book
EFCNIK
Banned
Nope, because the latter more violent parts of the book SUPERCEDE the earlier peaceful parts.
So you can find peaceful quotes and quote them till the cows come home, but in the RULES of the Quran it states that if you find contradiction then the latter parts supercede.
THIS is the fundamental difference between the quran and other religious books as well as that it isnt a collection of stories but written by one man and a definite instruction on how you must live your life. Oh and sharia law is compulsory. And apostasy is punishable by death.
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