Nick Clegg V Nigel Farage.

[evilwebby]

Immigration is not a good thing, its a GREAT thing. Economically, more workers has always resulted in more wealth creation at an accelerated rate, improving the oppotunities and lives of everyone. Culturally it has always lead to a more diverse and outward-looking population.

If you need convincing of this, put the boot on the other foot and go and experience life in countries where the people are moving away - Ireland, Japan, etc and ask what their people would give to stop the constant brain drain and have their young stay and try to build a better country.

There are always growing pains, but the historical precedence for the benefit to a country of immigration should be beyond question.

 

[EFCNIK]

You have just conformed the accuracy and truthfullnes of my post, congratulations.

Immigration is not a good thing, its a GREAT thing. Economically, more workers has always resulted in more wealth creation at an accelerated rate, improving the oppotunities and lives of everyone. Culturally it has always lead to a more diverse and outward-looking population.

If you need convincing of this, put the boot on the other foot and go and experience life in countries where the people are moving away - Ireland, Japan, etc and ask what their people would give to stop the constant brain drain and have their young stay and try to build a better country.

There are always growing pains, but the historical precedence for the benefit to a country of immigration should be beyond question.

Immigration is a good thing on a tiny overpopulated island if you have filters in place to only let the best trained people, who have the ability to support themselves into the country where their skills are desired.

This is not happening.

 

[Chang Elephant]

tiny overpopulated island

Yep, this is definitely central to any discussion on immigration but is left alone

 

[dead_soft]

There are three things about this debate that I believe is important to me.

1. Foreign influences. Granted people can adopt whatever language they like and beliefs etc my point is when you get all sorts of madness like Christmas restrictions, flags taken down etc in case it might offend someone then I do have an issue with that.

2. Leeching off the state. One reason why people come to this country is the free money for coming here. Not opinion, that's clearly a fact. However to the same extent foreigners do all the jobs that are beneath us English just so they can make a living. The difference is one benefits the country and one leeches from it. I am fine to work for or alongside someone who has been an immigrant, just not to pay for their house whilst they live the life or reilly.

3. The amount it costs the country. For all the money in this country it surely must cost us to pay for immigrants to come here. There needs to be a tighter restriction on who comes into the country rather than the open door policy that is in place. Even housing taken up could be taken up by people who live here rather than them being told to move house or pay bedroom tax.


Look the reality is immigrants is not a new issue. You have an issue about Romania n's? Before them it was turkish, before them pakistanis, Chinese, Irish. You get the point, I don't hear any calls to kick them all out because they all are part of what is England today. To be honest I work with the lot of them in my office and there isn't anything other than respect between us all because we are all equal. Give it time. And it will just be another country being targeted.

I used to know someone who worked 2 jobs here cleaning. All the money when could afford was.being sent back to Africa to build a house for him.and his family to live in. Do people agree with that?

For everyone who has a problem with the issue there is always a deeper political issue that effects them from the government that is being masked. Of course there are problems with foreigners coming into the country and filling up the prisons but the fact of the matter is this, we English are much worse. The problem is the fact nothing is done about it.

You have to give facts and evidence for this otherwise it counts for noting.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Did you know that today is Open Borders Day

http://openborders.info/blog/two-years-of-open-borders/

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yep, this is definitely central to any discussion on immigration but is left alone

Population density for the UK is 255 people per sq km. That compares with over 400 in the Netherlands, whilst Japan has 337.

 

[steken1]

Population density for the UK is 255 people per sq km. That compares with over 400 in the Netherlands, whilst Japan has 337.

I'd sooner go off class sizes, hospital waiting lists and that sort of thing. We can barely afford to collect our rubbish as things stand.

It's not like we're trying to fit chinese midgets into a mini!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'd sooner go off class sizes, hospital waiting lists and that sort of thing. We can barely afford to collect our rubbish as things stand.

It's not like we're trying to fit chinese midgets into a mini!

Not always as black and white as that though is it?

 

[EFCNIK]

I'd sooner go off class sizes, hospital waiting lists and that sort of thing. We can barely afford to collect our rubbish as things stand.

It's not like we're trying to fit chinese midgets into a mini![/QUOTE

Exactly. Is some people's argument really we're not all standing shoulder to shoulder in the streets so let's pack more in?

Hospitals are at breaking point. Classes are so full that teachers are barely able to spend real time with kids that might need a bit of extra help. Housing is at a premium and families that need (and deserve) help arnt getting it because the competition is so great added to by the amount of unskilled immigrants who depend on social housing.

But no we're sound. I haven't had to cram some Romanians in my living room because the streets are so packed so we must be ok. Free for all I say.

Honestly for supposed educated and I presume academics some of you are out of touch with what's happening in day to day England. In glad that most seem well aware.

 

[Brennan]

Not always as black and white as that though is it?

Black and white.

 

[steken1]

Not always as black and white as that though is it?

No of course. It's not really fair to say because we've got a load of space in the outer Hebrides we can handle more people either.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

No of course. It's not really fair to say because we've got a load of space in the outer Hebrides we can handle more people either.

For sure, but there is an awful lot to be said for bringing talented people together in one place. Evan Davies did a program for the BBC about it the other week.

 

[steken1]

For sure, but there is an awful lot to be said for bringing talented people together in one place. Evan Davies did a program for the BBC about it the other week.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[evilwebby]

WRT to who we let it..
I don't even think they need to be high-skill or "talented" people. If all they bring is the willingness to roll up their sleeves and work hard from the bottom up in unskilled jobs, then that should be welcomed with open arms.

Again, historical examples of mass immigrations to America, Hong Kong, and even the UK has never been about selectively picking out the high skill labour - it wasn't the aristocrats that were moving to these countries, it was the refugees and the persecuted, yet what they bring is new cheap labour that the existing economy can benefit from. In time, they amass their own capital, learn new skills, become more productive and lay the ground that make the cycle possible once again.

 

[EFC David]

Just a reminder that it's tonight.