Has it all gone a bit wrong?

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lmurkder said:
not long term for everton. short term would give us a boost.

what we want is to be financially competing every year which is via CL in our current circumstance
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You look for more finance to compete to win trophies. Winning trophies is the name of the game. How can a trophy winning season be relegated below a non-trophy winning one?
 

BirkenheadBlue said:
I'm not talking about which i'd prefer, I'm talking about which is a bigger accomplishment (which is after all what you termed the Wigan win to be). See below.


No, it isn't. You might PREFER to win a trophy over a CL qualification place. I might even agree with you, but in terms of size and difficulty of accomplishment, finishing top 4 with THAT squad over a 38 game season, considering we were THE favourites for relegation with some bookies at the start of the season, is a far bigger accomplishment than winning 6 cup games, only two of which were against Premier League opposition.
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I'll wager the only people to have this view are devotees of Moyes and those who have never seen us win anything.

Problem is you could ask 100 fellas who've seen the Moyes years AND witnessed us win a cup and I doubt you'd get one who agrees with you.
 
davek said:
We got 4th place that year because Liverpool were in the doldrums in the league with a manager more interested in the CL. We practically crawled over the line to get 4th too. It was a good effort considering, but you really downgrade illicitly what it takes to win a trophy like the FA Cup. It takes a bit of boldness for a start, something Moyes never had and never will have.
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Yeah, because Moyes was SO far away from winning us a cup. Oh no, wait... he was under 70mins away. Hardly light years is it? (and by the way, that was after a cup run that involved beating Liverpool, Man Utd, Boro and Aston Villa [plus Macclesfield], as opposed to Bournemouth, Macclesfield, Huddersfield, Millwall and ourselves)

Yes we crawled across the line, and Liverpool were poor that season - but we finished 4th when we had a squad tipped for relegation - not fifth place, and we just edged past 1 team into 4th - we finished above 13-15 teams we were expected to be outpaced by.
 
sd_1992 said:
So whether or not a team is motivated is irrelevent? You honestly think that if City had been at their best Wigan wouldn't have been thrashed?
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You have no evidence whatsoever to support your claims. I could turn to you and say that the Wigan players knew Martinez was leaving and felt let down. An equally bogus argument.
 

nigelcoyb said:
I'll wager the only people to have this view are devotees of Moyes and those who have never seen us win anything.

Problem is you could ask 100 fellas who've seen the Moyes years AND witnessed us win a cup and I doubt you'd get one who agrees with you.
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Well I'm not fortunate enough to remember us winning the title (apart from VERY vaguely), but I was at Wembley when we won the Cup in 95, and it was one of the best days of my life - I was also there when we lost in 09, and when we lost to the RS in 2012, and both hurt like hell).

Since you seem to have missed me saying it last time, I'm not saying that I would PREFER us to come 4th than win a Cup (though I do think it would be more beneficial to the club, and set us up to win more in the future), but in terms of the size of the accomplishment, doing it the year we did, with the players we did, was off the charts a larger, more difficult accomplishment - whether it was preferable or not.
 
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davek said:
You have no evidence whatsoever to support your claims. I could turn to you and say that the Wigan players knew Martinez was leaving and felt let down. An equally bogus argument.
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'City have won their last seven Premier League matches against the Latics'.... It is a pretty good bet....
 
BirkenheadBlue said:
Well I'm not fortunate enough to remember us winning the title (apart from VERY vaguely), but I was at Wembley when we won the Cup in 95, and it was one of the best days of my life.

Since you seem to have missed me saying it last time, I'm not saying that I would PREFER us to come 4th than win a Cup (though I do think it would be more beneficial to the club, and set us up to win more in the future), but in terms of the size of the accomplishment, doing it the year we did, with the players we did, was off the charts a larger, more difficult accomplishment.
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Really don't see it for the reasons Davek says, Martinez had his legs chopped away year by year he had no right to escape the previous years and while all that was going on he came here as underdogs and leathered us didn't choke in the semis then remarkably beat the champs in the final.

(although I have it on good authority City threw that game hahahahaha)
 
BirkenheadBlue said:
Yeah, because Moyes was SO far away from winning us a cup. Oh no, wait... he was under 70mins away. Hardly light years is it? (and by the way, that was after a cup run that involved beating Liverpool, Man Utd, Boro and Aston Villa [plus Macclesfield], as opposed to Bournemouth, Macclesfield, Huddersfield, Millwall and ourselves)

Yes we crawled across the line, and Liverpool were poor that season - but we finished 4th when we had a squad tipped for relegation - not fifth place, and we just edged past 1 team into 4th - we finished above 13-15 teams we were expected to be outpaced by.
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Yes, we took a few decent scalps that year. We were never in that final though, not really. When push came to shove Moyes couldn't find the answers in big games.
 

nigelcoyb said:
Really don't see it for the reasons Davek says, Martinez had his legs chopped away year by year he had no right to escape the previous years and while all that was going on he came here as underdogs and leathered us didn't choke in the semis then remarkably beat the champs in the final.

(although I have it on good authority City threw that game hahahahaha)
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He beat us in the QF and City in the final. The other rounds aren't exactly anything to hang his hat on, due to the dire level of the opposition.

The QF game, they did amazingly well - I don't think it's unfair to say they were aided by the fact that pretty much every one of our players had the worst game they've had in a long time, and as a unit, we played as badly as I've seen us play in the better part of a decade. PART of this was down to Wigan's game plan, but a good chunk was on us.

The final, again, an excellent gameplan well executed, but once again, helped to some extent by City having a (very) off day. Reading in the papers on the morning of the final that your manager is going to be sacked whatever the result is hardly the best way to focus the mind. But take nothing away, Wigan did very very well.

But if you HONESTLY think that winning two games against Premier League opposition, plus 2 vs Championship, one League One and one non-league is a more difficult achievement than taking a squad tipped for relegation and getting it to 4th place over the course of THIRTY EIGHT games... well... I'm out.
 
nigelcoyb said:
There's a book to be written on the contents of this evenings revelations - so glad I stayed up.
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Me too. Once In a blue moon I crack open a bottle of £30 wine and enjoy the madness Everton employs in us all.

Brilliant, such beautiful brilliance
 

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