A privatised NHS.

[EFCNIK]

Understaffed mate. When it's got more employees than the red army we'll be on the right track.

Working on behalf of the nhs, I can tell you that understaffing isn't the main problem.

 

[Brennan]

The NHS is often terribly run. If someone else can do a better job then why not give them the chance. Why not use a voucher system, so people get x amount of free healthcare and can spend it wherever they want?

There's this idea that the NHS is perfect, when it's really not in the slightest.

Both off my parents have worked in the NHS for over a decade and the stories they tell me about the sheer incompetence is ridiculous.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Understaffed mate. When it's got more employees than the red army we'll be on the right track.

To be honest, cutting down on turnover would mean more money for care. On my other halves ward, in her 18 months on the ward, they've lost something like 50% of the total number of nurses during that time. Given it takes perhaps £25,000 to recruit and train each new nurse, not to mention having to shadow them with an experienced nurse for a time, and it's a vast waste of money. Just on that ward alone that equates to around 1.25 million just hiring new people to replace the ones that have left because they're so stressed.

You'd think being in healthcare they'd look more at the cause rather than the symptom wouldn't you?

 

[chicoazul]

The US model isn't the only one out there. In Germany and France for instance, most healthcare is provided privately but funded publically.

That's a very fair point mate, I need to read up on them at some point as you seldom hear complaints about there. I thought they had socialised healthcare too ffs.

About to buy a book on the annexing of Europe by the Soviets post WWII too, which you inspired me on. Not the one you linked but a different one.

 

[EFCNIK]

And just putting it out there, I speak to nurses every day and it is alarming how ****ing thick and sometimes rude some of them are. Some of their english is diabolical too.

 

[maddison]

I miss the NHS terribly. Paying $140 a month plus $25 each doc visit and $40 for specialists with deductibles on prescriptions, limits on care, $250 emergency visits etc isn't nice

I listened to a good podcast last week where an MD was quoted as saying the insurance system in the states actually prevents good medical care, because if doctors give preventative advice they don't get paid. They get paid for treatments, so it actually worked in their favour to let people get sick and then treat them.

The NHS isn't perfect, but the alternatives are far worse.

 

[maddison]

The NHS is often terribly run. If someone else can do a better job then why not give them the chance. Why not use a voucher system, so people get x amount of free healthcare and can spend it wherever they want?

There's this idea that the NHS is perfect, when it's really not in the slightest.

What if you get run over on your bike, and then can't afford the ongoing treatments? Or you run out of vouchers!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Both off my parents have worked in the NHS for over a decade and the stories they tell me about the sheer incompetence is ridiculous.

The thing is, it's such a sacred cow now that it's almost political poison to even suggest it needs to be better, or heaven forbid, that someone else could do a better job.

By far the most healthcare expenditure in the west goes on the elderly, and in many developed countries, it's the elderly population that's growing massively. It's vital that we get better at this, because despite so many information products getting exponentially cheaper over the past 50 years, healthcare has become exponentially dearer.

It needs a root and branch overhaul of it all really, from the way drugs are approved for market through the patent system through health education, and of course through provision of healthcare for much less than it currently costs. Places like the Aravind Eye Hospital show what's possible.

 

[maddison]

The thing is, it's such a sacred cow now that it's almost political poison to even suggest it needs to be better, or heaven forbid, that someone else could do a better job.

By far the most healthcare expenditure in the west goes on the elderly, and in many developed countries, it's the elderly population that's growing massively. It's vital that we get better at this, because despite so many information products getting exponentially cheaper over the past 50 years, healthcare has become exponentially dearer.

It needs a root and branch overhaul of it all really, from the way drugs are approved for market through the patent system through health education, and of course through provision of healthcare for much less than it currently costs. Places like the Aravind Eye Hospital show what's possible.

Preventative healthcare would be the way forward. Drugs are costly, and we have a culture of simply letting people get sick and then facilitating their sickness by pumping them full of drugs. That's what cripples healthcare, it's peoples lifestyles and diets.

 

[noharmdone]

There is genuinely nothing worse than being on a ward, at a weekend / bank holiday.. And getting an agency / stand in nurse looking after you. Poor English and sometimes even poorer diagnosis.

I still stand by how good most are however.. I had issues with a Polish Sister once, but once we cleared the air it was sound. As for the incompetence, there is money wasted everywhere..

 

[Bruce Wayne]

That's a very fair point mate, I need to read up on them at some point as you seldom hear complaints about there. I thought they had socialised healthcare too ffs.

About to buy a book on the annexing of Europe by the Soviets post WWII too, which you inspired me on. Not the one you linked but a different one.

To be honest, the American system is probably worse than ours. Both were setup after the war, and both (imo) were setup kinda badly, because neither gave responsibility for purchasing healthcare to the person in need.

What if you get run over on your bike, and then can't afford the ongoing treatments? Or you run out of vouchers!

For sure, there are some instances of people needing treatment because of accidents, but there are waaaay more treatments needed due to bad lifestyles. I mean in Germany, the main causes of male admissions were for heart disease or alcohol problems, both of which could be hugely improved if people lived a healthier lifestyle.

So rather than thinking about what might happen in the event of an accident, folks should be thinking about how can we encourage people to live a healthier lifestyle, or if they don't wish to do so, at least pay more towards the healthcare they're likely to use.

I mean if you go into your average A&E this evening, odds are that most people in there will be down to booze.

 

[Chang Elephant]

I read something the other day about someone being kept waiting a few weeks for a hip operation. I'm now convinced the NHS should be fully privatised, and vouchers given out to everyone. The profit taken out by private providers will lead to better service, and it will stop us healthy people subsidising fat bastards with dodgy tickers etc

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Preventative healthcare would be the way forward. Drugs are costly, and we have a culture of simply letting people get sick and then facilitating their sickness by pumping them full of drugs. That's what cripples healthcare, it's peoples lifestyles and diets.

The drug development process does need looking at. Because right now it typically takes 4-5 years to bring a drug through the trial process, it costs a few hundred million. Chuck in the costs of the drugs that don't make it through, and pharma companies are left having to charge big bucks whilst their drug is on patent to recoup their costs and make a profit. As a result, we tend to get drugs that try and solve problems for large numbers of people, because they need a big market.

If that whole process could be made easier not only would costs be lower, but we might also get the personalised drugs that were promised when the genome was mapped.

There is genuinely nothing worse than being on a ward, at a weekend / bank holiday.. And getting an agency / stand in nurse looking after you. Poor English and sometimes even poorer diagnosis.

I still stand by how good most are however.. I had issues with a Polish Sister once, but once we cleared the air it was sound. As for the incompetence, there is money wasted everywhere..

It's a quirk of the system that a sizeable chunk of the nurses trained via UK universities don't end up working in the NHS, so large numbers are imported from abroad, many of whom aren't trained in the same way. Not to say they're awful, but they're often very different, be it due to their training or the culture they've come from. Many will get a couple of months of training and then be expected to be up to speed on the UK way of doing things, which isn't all that likely. Not ideal.

 

[The-Golden-Vision]

I read something the other day about someone being kept waiting a few weeks for a hip operation. I'm now convinced the NHS should be fully privatised, and vouchers given out to everyone. The profit taken out by private providers will lead to better service, and it will stop us healthy people subsidising fat bastards with dodgy tickers etc

 

[johnnydawg68]

I miss the NHS terribly. Paying $140 a month plus $25 each doc visit and $40 for specialists with deductibles on prescriptions, limits on care, $250 emergency visits etc isn't nice

I can't imagine why anyone would want to try and replicate our system of private insurance. It's madness. And expensive.