All Is Not Forgiven

[dholliday]

whoever comes in is on a hiding to nothing in terms of the "next level", as that level is currently filled with clubs who have vastly higher budgets than us. It's only due to Moyes that we're anywhere near seeing that as 'the next level' before he arrived we'd largely had a decade where midtable obscurity was 'the next level'.

It's a sore point right now, and most of us are sick of hearing it. We want to discuss tactics and getting up for the big games, not fawning about how Moyes is saving us despite lack of money.

It's not lack of money that loses these big games. It's excuses like your parotting that instils an inferiority-complex in the players.

Moyes made a mistake picking Neville last week, & the side then proceeded to stink the place out. Moyes was as cuplable as his team were.

We didn't lose last week due to some mythical inferiority complex, we were just ****e!

wtf has that got to do with what I posted?

Wigan wasn't the first time we "stunk the place out" in a very important match...but obviously you know this already.

F all to do with what I posted, but you've obviously got nothing else, so we'll leave it there.

Probably a good idea.

 

[bluebottle]

It's got everything to do with what you posted: our lack of superiority-complex is a prime reason why we don't win these games.

Wigan wasn't the first time we "stunk the place out" in a very important match...but obviously you know this already.

I think our lack of arrogance hurts us an awful lot, I also think it may boil down to tactics. Everyone bemoans defensive changes Moyes makes to try and see out a game, the big teams all stick to their guns and continue to attack, more often than not succeeding. We have a good team of good players, that are treated like underdogs by the manager on the pitch.

 

[Khalekan]

Of course he can't.

Lets ignore the fact that the players gave away a free header against Wigan which started the ball rolling for them.

And while we're at it, we'll also ignore the fact Wigan were already outclassing us and Maloney had hit the woodwork even before the rot set in.

Oh...... sorry, we can't ignore that.....because that is fact.

Same way as we'll just ignore the fact that our best midfielder was dropped in favour of Phil Neville, whom gave away the crucial second goal.

And The Moyesiah has himself said that Gibson wasn't injured and that Neville's inclusion was for "tactical reasons".

Dear old Brennan.....forever sawing off the branch upon which he is so precariously perched.

 

[Khalekan]

Mate ... it's MOTD. If they were on the other side of the argument and blaming Moyes the argument they'd use to do it would be just as incoherent and poorly thought-out as their argument defending him. It's essentially a children's program -- record it and fast forward the "analysis" like any sensible person does. Their moronic rambling isn't proof of anything aside from the LCD nature of sports programming.

I'm sorry, it was Pat Nevin whom said it.

One of the best and most respected pundits around.

Never mind that it was on MOTD.

(actually it was MOTD2, which is a different beast and usually takes a more cynical approach to the game than its parent programme.....which you would know if you didn't "fast forward" the analysis on account of you being such a "sensible person")

Nevin's comments came on the same day as Gary Neville's idiotic rantings in the Mail on Sunday and that other article we saw from the Sunday Telegraph.

Whether the "sensible" people choose to ignore these tomes and talking heads is neither here nor there......the simple fact is that this is the bollox being put forward in the mass, mainstream media about Everton FC and its fans.

 

[Pabbers]

Typical week as an Evertonian.

Thats what I told my lad, he was gutted after the 3 nill, and made up this week. "Thats Everton for you kidda !"

 

[Khalekan]

Very true, dat.

 

[Brennan]

And while we're at it, we'll also ignore the fact Wigan were already outclassing us and Maloney had hit the woodwork even before the rot set in.

Oh...... sorry, we can't ignore that.....because that is fact.

Same way as we'll just ignore the fact that our best midfielder was dropped in favour of Phil Neville, whom gave away the crucial second goal.

And The Moyesiah has himself said that Gibson wasn't injured and that Neville's inclusion was for "tactical reasons".

Dear old Brennan.....forever sawing off the branch upon which he is so precariously perched.

Wigan were not outclassing us before that goal. At all. We were playing poorly but it was a fairly even game.

And Gibson our best midfielder ?

'Dont be stupid'

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I agree the players were largely at fault for the dire performance against Wigan. But a high-end manager has it within his power to turn those players around for the second half. And generally to coax his players to turn it on for important games.

As Moyes doesn't do that, he will not be marked for a top job. After Everton he is likely to have to move down a peg to prove himself.




What, like this?

I hear about his supposed hardman image all the time from fans of other clubs and read it everywhere on mainstream comment sites. If only he did have the hairdryer qualities of a Lord Ferg.




What's a WUM?

He's got the image as a "Stern Scotsman" but most Scottish people come across as stern. It's the accent I reckon

 

[Khalekan]

Wigan were not outclassing us before that goal. At all. We were playing poorly but it was a fairly even game.

And Gibson our best midfielder ?


Er, no.....it wasn't a "fairly even game" at all.

Wigan were all over us and could have been two up before they scored.

Maybe one had to be there to notice that b)

And yes, Gibson is our best midfielder, Mr. Brennan.

It would be Fellani, of course, if we had a manager whom played him in a midfielder's role instead of leaving him in the no man's land between midfield and attack.

But as he has rarely played as a midfielder this season, we can hardly nominate him as our best.

Hope this helps.

 

[njligernj]

(actually it was MOTD2, which is a different beast and usually takes a more cynical approach to the game than its parent programme.....which you would know if you didn't "fast forward" the analysis on account of you being such a "sensible person")

... but it's got you all angry. Why would I subject myself to that? I've watched it in the past (including MOTD2) and came to the conclusion that Executioner's Bong could put out a more lucid explanation of what happened in a game after I cut his head off than anyone on MOTD1/2 so why would I bother listening to any of it? Even in the event someone who knows their stuff is accidentally allowed on they aren't going to get the time or freedom from the producers to actually talk intelligently about tactics or anything truly meaningful. I'd just be winding myself up for no reason.

At some point it ceases to be their fault as idiots and my fault for continuing to listen to idiots whom I knew were idiots before they opened their mouth.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

... but it's got you all angry. Why would I subject myself to that? I've watched it in the past (including MOTD2) and came to the conclusion that Executioner's Bong could put out a more lucid explanation of what happened in a game after I cut his head off than anyone on MOTD1/2 so why would I bother listening to any of it? Even in the event someone who knows their stuff is accidentally allowed on they aren't going to get the time or freedom from the producers to actually talk intelligently about tactics or anything truly meaningful. I'd just be winding myself up for no reason.

At some point it ceases to be their fault as idiots and my fault for continuing to listen to idiots whom I knew were idiots before they opened their mouth.

Fair point. I only watch MOTD for the match highlights and tend to skip the post-match analysis

 

[Khalekan]

No sir, nilsigernj.

It hasn't got me "angry".

I'm just an ordinary fellow passing a bit of time on an internat forum.

It ain't me whom is implying he is "sensible" and has started an idiotic rant about idiots listening to idoits or sommat.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Wigan were not outclassing us before that goal. At all. We were playing poorly but it was a fairly even game.

And Gibson our best midfielder ?


Er, no.....it wasn't a "fairly even game" at all.

Wigan were all over us and could have been two up before they scored.

Maybe one had to be there to notice that b)

And yes, Gibson is our best midfielder, Mr. Brennan.

It would be Fellani, of course, if we had a manager whom played him in a midfielder's role instead of leaving him in the no man's land between midfield and attack.

But as he has rarely played as a midfielder this season, we can hardly nominate him as our best.

Hope this helps.

You mean in the position that's seen him become our leading goalscorer? The position that has seen him move from being viewed as a glorified ogre, all elbows & fouls, to one of the most effective & dangerous midfield players in the division, that position?

 

[njligernj]

No sir, nilsigernj. It hasn't got me "angry".

I don't think you're about to turn into the Hulk but here are some of the things you said here:

It ain't me whom is implying he is "sensible" and has started an idiotic rant about idiots listening to idoits or sommat.

That is a 100% fair and accurate reflection of my point and I thank you for taking the time to seriously consider it before replying.

 

[Khalekan]

You mean in the position that's seen him become our leading goalscorer? The position that has seen him move from being viewed as a glorified ogre, all elbows & fouls, to one of the most effective & dangerous midfield players in the division, that position?

Spot on.

Except for the last bit.

The bit about hime being one of the "most effective & dangerous midfield players in the division".

He has done bugger all of note from a midfield position this season.

He has been playing ahead of the midfield and just behind the striker.

You would know this if you watched EFC play on even a semi regular basis.

Now, in my view Fellani is better employed in the heart of the midfield, setting up plays for strikers ahead of him and dictating games alongside Gibson as he was toward the end of last season plus weighing in with a goal or three his own self.

But that's just me.

Hope this helps.