The European Dividend

[Rita_Poon]

They don’t, but equally 100 million plus isn’t a dime.

We had 19 players exit, we got up to £10m for Chermiti somehow, and about £3m for maupay (part of the N'diaye deal).
Palace have had a mild rebuild helped out by £70m for Eze.
We need to acknowledge the state of the squad that was the baseline for Moyes to try to build from. We need a squad, and we've limped onwards somewhat but we're still miles from a side with enough quality and cover. No club has ever turned an entire playing staff over in one window.

Eventually the pigeons were going to come home to roost, big outlays on iceland and Bolasie and schneiderlin and gbamin and Doucoure and getting nothing back when they left was always going to be difficult for us to carry financially.
A sign of progress this season is that we have one loanee in, instead of maxing out the places for other sides players.

 

[COYBL25]

Nothing but 72 points will do.

CAMELOT beckons.

 

[davek]

I fought against all comers for Moyes on here in his first spell. Then spent about 3 years arguing with Dave about Martinez. The reason being that I thought I half expected that this season I’d have to defend Moyes against people who expected top 4 and battering top 6 teams away from home on their own patch etc. Instead some people are talking about expected losses?!!! Mid 40 points would be acceptable? Need stability? Can’t expect to beat Liverpool or City. This team that gained 48 points twice in a row just had 100 million pounds poured into it!! Our wide players are Jack Grealish and Iliman Ndiaye whilst Tyler Dibling Alcaraz and Merlin Rohl don’t even make our starting 11!

Add in Dave’s European observation and the weakness of certain teams this season then absolutely I think we should be pushing on upwards from 48 points. This is a squad that should be finishing top half and mid 50s in my opinion.

There's a growing rupture within our fanbase between those who still expect little more than survival each season and those who look at the changed circumstances of new ownership, money to spend, and a new beginning and clean slate - as exemplified by that magnificent new stadium.

 

[Saint Domingo]

There's a growing rupture within our fanbase between those who still expect little more than survival each season and those who look at the changed circumstances of new ownership, money to spend and a new beginning and clean slate - exemplified by that magnificent new stadium.

What I see is that the some of the same people who double downed so hard on Dyche are now trying to turn it into a binary Dyche vs Moyes play and it has resulted in them posting a whole host of excuses that they derided as irrelevant under the previous manager.

These same people told us that Everton should expect better than 13th, that playing not to win was never acceptable and that we should always be capable regardless of the player quality in our team of outclassing x or y home or away. Indeed losing at newly promoted teams was an unforgivable embarrassment that they’d never recover from etc.

Now this same lot are falling over themselves bringing out the exact same ‘excuses’ that they wouldn’t accept under Dyche.

Leeds wasn’t on Moyes because we weren’t ready for the season, the recruitment team got him players he didn’t want, there’s been a big turn over, other teams have improved, there’s gaps in the squad, can’t expect to win at City or Liverpool, effects of spending 8 years ago and board room changes. F me, the club being on the brink of liquidation wasn’t an excuse for Dyche but all this stuff is now suddenly dead important? It’s absolute hypocrisy, and even greater when the outside context has changed and instead of being in a house on fire we had over 100 mill thrown at the squad!

Never thought I’d say I actually respect @windymiller who was NSNO under Dyche and remains NSNO under Moyes. At least there’s some consistency in that but some of the mental gymnastics on here recently are unbelievable.

 

[Rita_Poon]

Never thought I’d say I actually respect @windymiller who was NSNO under Dyche and remains NSNO under Moyes. At least there’s some consistency in that but some of the mental gymnastics on here recently are unbelievable.

Like someone suggesting a side that still has Myko, Patterson, Coleman, and offered Young another year and gave former whipping boy Keane another contract can be considered a "new beginning and clean slate - exemplified by that magnificent new stadium."

Quite how the stadium has any bearing on playing staff I'll never fathom. We've gotten lucky Garner has been so successful with versatility, yet much less fortunate with how profligate Beto still is. We've a problem in CM we can't handle (so far). As you're so kindly calling out the ludicrousness of certain posts and posters, can the above have both barrels please?

 

[Saint Domingo]

Like someone suggesting a side that still has Myko, Patterson, Coleman, and offered Young another year and gave former whipping boy Keane another contract can be considered a "new beginning and clean slate - exemplified by that magnificent new stadium."

Quite how the stadium has any bearing on playing staff I'll never fathom. We've gotten lucky Garner has been so successful with versatility, yet much less fortunate with how profligate Beto still is. We've a problem in CM we can't handle (so far). As you're so kindly calling out the ludicrousness of certain posts and posters, can the above have both barrels please?

I think the clean slate and new stadium refers to the fact that we’ve never been in a better financial position in the PL. We won’t have to worry about PS&R much thanks to the new headroom, won’t have to sell our top assets, transfer funds available every window, revenues from match day and commercial massively increased.

It’s a completely different scenario than has ever occurred for Everton in the PL. the old days of sell to buy and 85p in the pound to finch farm and cutting our cloth or getting back into compliance are over. The club should now be completely aiming for success and year on year progression. It was an unrealistic expectation under Kenwright and the latter days of Moshiri. It isn’t now.

 

[W84 Dum Freeze]

With 10 of the other 19 PL clubs on regular weekday-weekend game schedules this should significantly and positively affect our ability to get results this season, more than any other.

Already we benefitted against Palace when the wheels fell off them in the last 20 minutes; and Liverpool were begging for the final whistle in the derby - and they're one of those teams involved in Europe who can rotate heavily.

It gives us a great chance to get a lot more points this season and we need to make that count again against Spurs this Sunday.

No reason whatsoever with zero distractions until the FA Cup we shouldn't be taking the majority of points against the likes of Palace, Forest, Villa, Newcastle, Man United, and being really confident in picking up points from the others.

We should be looking at 55 points easy this season, IMO.

Think it's nine clubs Dave.

Man U finished 15th, two places below us and two above Spurs, 17th, who beat them to qualify for the Champions League by winning the Europa League final.

Spurs will be knackered on Sunday after Monaco gave them the run around last night tho.

 

[davek]

What I see is that the some of the same people who double downed so hard on Dyche are now trying to turn it into a binary Dyche vs Moyes play and it has resulted in them posting a whole host of excuses that they derided as irrelevant under the previous manager.

These same people told us that Everton should expect better than 13th, that playing not to win was never acceptable and that we should always be capable regardless of the player quality in our team of outclassing x or y home or away. Indeed losing at newly promoted teams was an unforgivable embarrassment that they’d never recover from etc.

Now this same lot are falling over themselves bringing out the exact same ‘excuses’ that they wouldn’t accept under Dyche.

Leeds wasn’t on Moyes because we weren’t ready for the season, the recruitment team got him players he didn’t want, there’s been a big turn over, other teams have improved, there’s gaps in the squad, can’t expect to win at City or Liverpool, effects of spending 8 years ago and board room changes. F me, the club being on the brink of liquidation wasn’t an excuse for Dyche but all this stuff is now suddenly dead important? It’s absolute hypocrisy, and even greater when the outside context has changed and instead of being in a house on fire we had over 100 mill thrown at the squad!

Never thought I’d say I actually respect @windymiller who was NSNO under Dyche and remains NSNO under Moyes. At least there’s some consistency in that but some of the mental gymnastics on here recently are unbelievable.

Yes, that double standards defo needs calling out.

It's expectation management that's fuelled by settling a score with Dyche. There's definitely that to the way they demand an easy ride for Moyes.

The awkward fact is though -as you mention - Moyes himself says targeting Europe is an objective, so they cant deny it as a goal this season themselves.

Overall though: the environment has changed. I sense it and most do: there's no going back to the mediocrity of the recent past. We either get up that league into top 10 and beyond to Europe or it's curtains for those failing us.

 

[davek]

Think it's nine clubs Dave.

Man U finished 15th, two places below us and two above Spurs, 17th, who beat them to qualify for the Champions League by winning the Europa League final.

Spurs will be knackered on Sunday after Monaco gave them the run around last night tho.

Ah, yeah. I automatically put them in.

 

[Rita_Poon]

I think the clean slate and new stadium refers to the fact that we’ve never been in a better financial position in the PL. We won’t have to worry about PS&R much thanks to the new headroom, won’t have to sell our top assets, transfer funds available every window, revenues from match day and commercial massively increased.

It’s a completely different scenario than has ever occurred for Everton in the PL. the old days of sell to buy and 85p in the pound to finch farm and cutting our cloth or getting back into compliance are over. The club should now be completely aiming for success and year on year progression. It was an unrealistic expectation under Kenwright and the latter days of Moshiri. It isn’t now.

We've had 4 home games. Lets see how we stand a few years down the line. Lets let the thing earn us a few quid and then judge.
It'd have been just as easy to believe good times were due back when moshiri bought in, we've been burned by new dazzling golden dawns before. Lets let the new owners bed in and then judge. We've had good players previous and ended up forced to sell, I'm not counting any chickens just yet. I also don't see a different scenario, in fact I see it just worse of what we had, because psr issues never applied to city, man utd, rs, newcastle, arsenal, or spurs. Villa got stung a bit and were forced into a few sales I suppose. A shiny new stadium doesn't make up for 40 years of chronic mismanagement (not team, though that's on for a shout).
Maybe with a few years of shrewd operation, getting full value from events besides football at BMD, better sponsorship deals, pushing 'the brand', and incremental improvement to the playing side and bringing talent through the academy then we can be in a position to dare to dream, but all that isn't right now. That's the issue with big plans and lofty ideas, we've walked that road multiple times previous, it only takes a koeman or benitez to ruin the lot for a decade.

 

[GoldenToffee]

Where we benefit from having no European football, we are handicapped by having two absolutely garbage strikers. So it basically cancels each other out. We won't often get lucky with 93rd minute winners like we did against Palace. And let's be honest, they should have been out of sight by half time the amount of chances they missed.

Maybe if we can somehow get to January in the top 10 we can look to bring in a better striker (surely that's already been decided by everybody at the club and is being actively worked on — unless the goal for the season is merely surviving in the division, as we can probably still do that with these two clowns we already have) and then really give it a good crack at a European finish.

The first week of January will tell me everything I need to know about the club's ambition for the season.

 

[davek]

Where we benefit from having no European football, we are handicapped by having two absolutely garbage strikers. So it basically cancels each other out. We won't often get lucky with 93rd minute winners like we did against Palace. And let's be honest, they should have been out of sight by half time the amount of chances they missed.

Maybe if we can somehow get to January in the top 10 we can look to bring in a better striker (surely that's already been decided by everybody at the club and is being actively worked on — unless the goal for the season is merely surviving in the division, as we can probably still do that with these two clowns we already have) and then really give it a good crack at a European finish.

The first week of January will tell me everything I need to know about the club's ambition for the season.

In 2023/24 we had 48 points before deductions, which would have got us 11th - and we did that scoring 40 goals with DCL and Beto weighing in with 10 goals between them.

We have 9 goals now and a much better attack, and I can see us scoring well in excess of 50 goals with it. If we settle that defence down we can take a European spot. If we fall short of that we still need to be in the top 10 with what we have and the workload other clubs have on their hands.

 

[T LEAFE]

And hopefully this European dividend should continue for many years

 

[Alan Whittle]

And hopefully this European dividend should continue for many years

Unless Everton qualify for Europe of couse. The owners would have to invest significantly in the size and quality of the squad.

 

[PercyPlant]

What are people’s thoughts on purposefully avoiding European qualification this year and having a real tilt at the title next season and then sacking Moyes if we don’t bring number 10 home.

If we can go from relegation being a real discussion in 7 of the last 11 years to instantly expecting Europe (without a striker) then surely next season could be our year without the distraction of Europe.

Also wondering if we do get Europe this season will the OP give a bit of leeway to the manager next season if results tail off? I personally doubt it.