2025/26 David Moyes

[windymiller]

That's an absolute horrendous attitude to sport and life in general. Winning trophies is ultimately futile and pointless too in the grand scheme of things. Scottie Scheffler said as much. Things only have the value that we attribute to them. If you only find value in winning trophies then that's pretty sad for you. You face a life time of disappointment.

Spectator sport is literally an exercise in futility. It's vicarious by definition. That doesn't mean it's not enjoyable but it is, ultimately, pointless. I'm fortunate that I am of an age that I actually remember us winning things, and I can tell you that it's a lot more fun when you're winning than when you're losing. The Scottie Scheffler example you give is an interesting one, he said that winning is empty and yet he's richer than God and still keeps playing and, most importantly, keeps on winning. If he finds it such a soulless experience why does he keep doing it? He doesn't need the money. I bet you all the money in Scottie's bank account that he'd stop playing if he wasn't competitive any more. So maybe winning isn't quite the drag on his soul that he claims?

P.S. equating watching sport to life is bizarre and shows that it's you, not me, that has got the balance wrong. Sport just isn't that important.

 

[wandyr79]

So you agree that, ultimately, the aim of being a football club is to win trophies and that, therefore, winning things is the actual measure of success?

I think it is pretty obvious that the aim is for a team to lift a trophy. However, success or at the very least being happy/content with the way things are going is fluid.

For me it is not a case of such a black and white perspective on supporting a football club. There are so many clubs around the country (world) that consider mid table as a successful season, some may even consider surviving relegation as a successful season. If it was just about trophies then there would be only a few fans going to the games at about 5/6 clubs in the country. Maybe less, if it became a 2/3 horse race for a league title.

I think the term 'successful season' could be applied to Everton if we finish top half. Is it the most successful season we could have, well of course not, as 1st would be the highest level of success. However, where we have been, not finishing in the top half for 5/6 years, that is improvement and the term 'success' can be applied. If this were to be the case then next season would be fluid again and if we did not improve then the success factor would be zero, if we qualified for Europe, it would again be classed as a good and possibly successful season.

It is no different to life. If you were going for a qualification, then obviously the highest level of success is to get the highest score possible, but for some simply passing is an achievement and they can consider themselves successful.

 

[windymiller]

I think it is pretty obvious that the aim is for a team to lift a trophy. However, success or at the very least being happy/content with the way things are going is fluid.

For me it is not a case of such a black and white perspective on supporting a football club. There are so many clubs around the country (world) that consider mid table as a successful season, some may even consider surviving relegation as a successful season. If it was just about trophies then there would be only a few fans going to the games at about 5/6 clubs in the country. Maybe less, if it became a 2/3 horse race for a league title.

I think the term 'successful season' could be applied to Everton if we finish top half. Is it the most successful season we could have, well of course not, as 1st would be the highest level of success. However, where we have been, not finishing in the top half for 5/6 years, that is improvement and the term 'success' can be applied. If this were to be the case then next season would be fluid again and if we did not improve then the success factor would be zero, if we qualified for Europe, it would again be classed as a good and possibly successful season.

It is no different to life. If you were going for a qualification, then obviously the highest level of success is to get the highest score possible, but for some simply passing is an achievement and they can consider themselves successful.

Maybe you're right but, in my lifetime, we have gone from being a team that competed to win everything, literally everything, to what we are now. I've also seen teams like Man City go from being yo yo clubs, they were as far down the pyramid as the 3rd division relatively recently, become world beaters. So I can't accept, as you put it, surviving relegation as a successful season. NSNO shouldn't just be some letters on a badge.

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

Spectator sport is literally an exercise in futility. It's vicarious by definition. That doesn't mean it's not enjoyable but it is, ultimately, pointless. I'm fortunate that I am of an age that I actually remember us winning things, and I can tell you that it's a lot more fun when you're winning than when you're losing. The Scottie Scheffler example you give is an interesting one, he said that winning is empty and yet he's richer than God and still keeps playing and, most importantly, keeps on winning. If he finds it such a soulless experience why does he keep doing it? He doesn't need the money. I bet you all the money in Scottie's bank account that he'd stop playing if he wasn't competitive any more. So maybe winning isn't quite the drag on his soul that he claims?

P.S. equating watching sport to life is bizarre and shows that it's you, not me, that has got the balance wrong. Sport just isn't that important.

Is watching a play or listening to music futile? What a bizarre outlook on life.

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

I think it is pretty obvious that the aim is for a team to lift a trophy. However, success or at the very least being happy/content with the way things are going is fluid.

For me it is not a case of such a black and white perspective on supporting a football club. There are so many clubs around the country (world) that consider mid table as a successful season, some may even consider surviving relegation as a successful season. If it was just about trophies then there would be only a few fans going to the games at about 5/6 clubs in the country. Maybe less, if it became a 2/3 horse race for a league title.

I think the term 'successful season' could be applied to Everton if we finish top half. Is it the most successful season we could have, well of course not, as 1st would be the highest level of success. However, where we have been, not finishing in the top half for 5/6 years, that is improvement and the term 'success' can be applied. If this were to be the case then next season would be fluid again and if we did not improve then the success factor would be zero, if we qualified for Europe, it would again be classed as a good and possibly successful season.

It is no different to life. If you were going for a qualification, then obviously the highest level of success is to get the highest score possible, but for some simply passing is an achievement and they can consider themselves successful.

You seem like a sensible chap I hate it when people describe themselves as "successful" or someone as more successful than someone else for the reasons you state. My daughter's are both competitive swimmers but they rarely win races. But success for them is beating PBs.

 

[Curtis]

You do realise teams like City and Liverpool, their whole game is built around not letting the opposition play.

If only it was as easy as go out and attack them, maybe they both wouldn't have won so many Titles.

How about counter attacking football instead of a siege mentality?

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

Maybe you're right but, in my lifetime, we have gone from being a team that competed to win everything, literally everything, to what we are now. I've also seen teams like Man City go from being yo yo clubs, they were as far down the pyramid as the 3rd division relatively recently, become world beaters. So I can't accept, as you put it, surviving relegation as a successful season. NSNO shouldn't just be some letters on a badge.

Whether or not you accept it is completely irrelevant and NSNO is a meaningless phrase nowadays.

 

[Goat]

How about counter attacking football instead of a siege mentality?

Nobody actually read what I wrote did they.

Its like people think teams choose to let these teams have 80% possession.

 

[windymiller]

Is watching a play or listening to music futile? What a bizarre outlook on life.

There's that "life" thing again. I've acknowledged the cultural benefits of entertainment in my post above, although I would argue that going to see PL football these days is less culturally valuable than it used to be, is less of a community event than seeing a lower league or non-league club and is less likely to enrich your life or alter your viewpoint than most other areas of the arts, such as those that you glibly threw out in your post.

Look, you're happy bumbling around mid table as you see it as being an achievement that we wouldn't be fighting relegation again, good for you, I prefer winning stuff and consider that a marker of success. Different horses for different courses, I guess. I'm sure you're just about to tell me how "bizarre" and "horrendous" that makes my life, which seems a little bit like projection to me, but you do you little bro.

 

[Curtis]

Nobody actually read what I wrote did they.

Its like people think teams choose to let these teams have 80% possession.

I don't have a problem with giving the other team possession as you correctly stated they're going to dominate on that front but like the one poster my point Is to just sit back and absorb pressure the entire time is defeatist against those teams , obviously you can't just go at them but that doesn't mean you have to play dyche ball either, look at how Brighton won a couple weeks ago at city that should be the blueprint. They found pressing city to be a very effective tactic

 

[windymiller]

Whether or not you accept it is completely irrelevant and NSNO is a meaningless phrase nowadays.

It clearly is to you. That's a shame. Your view on all of this is completely irrelevant too, that's what I've been trying to tell you. You're just a customer number to EFC.

 

[Bedfordblue]

What a load of old Horlicks filling this thread.
Can we get back to The Moyes Boys vs The Anyone-elser’s ffs.

 

[MikeH72]

So what I’m gathering from this riveting discussion is that if you are content with mid table this season then you are content with it FOREVER and see it as success and that’s all you ever want from the sport of football.

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

There's that "life" thing again. I've acknowledged the cultural benefits of entertainment in my post above, although I would argue that going to see PL football these days is less culturally valuable than it used to be, is less of a community event than seeing a lower league or non-league club and is less likely to enrich your life or alter your viewpoint than most other areas of the arts, such as those that you glibly threw out in your post.

Look, you're happy bumbling around mid table as you see it as being an achievement that we wouldn't be fighting relegation again, good for you, I prefer winning stuff and consider that a marker of success. Different horses for different courses, I guess. I'm sure you're just about to tell me how "bizarre" and "horrendous" that makes my life, which seems a little bit like projection to me, but you do you little bro.

How patronising. Anyway the point I'm making is clearly sailing way over your head. You have said that only teams that win trophies can be called successful and that 99.99% of football is a futile waste of time. That's a pretty bizarre take my strange friend but you do you. You know you wouldn't actually be involved in us winning stuff? It wouldn't be your achievement. You have a kopite mentality.

 

[wandyr79]

Maybe you're right but, in my lifetime, we have gone from being a team that competed to win everything, literally everything, to what we are now. I've also seen teams like Man City go from being yo yo clubs, they were as far down the pyramid as the 3rd division relatively recently, become world beaters. So I can't accept, as you put it, surviving relegation as a successful season. NSNO shouldn't just be some letters on a badge.

Fully agree, just surviving relegation would not be considered a success for Everton. I said some clubs, as there are loads ,up and down the country at all levels, that would consider this as a success.