6 + 2 Point Deductions


Brigadier2 said:
That's the issue for me, no laws have been broken so why is the punishment so heavy?
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Couple of things...

A: Theyre the rules that every club signs up to in order to play in the premier league.

B: Previously the rules were such that stadiums (and other items) were not included in the calculations. This appears to have changed during the three year rolling period which is 'unfair'. The loans & calculations towards the stadium is where we've been caught out.
 
Incompetent head of organisation under intense government scrutiny, exposed for the bluffer he is, in saving face shocker… Masters knows his race is run, that’s why the suits are writing his letters. I can’t imagine there will be many clubs in the league who have any respect or confidence left for a middle manager who has been promoted far beyond his capabilities and overseen this whole charade.
 
Clarky cat said:
Incompetent head of organisation under intense government scrutiny, exposed for the bluffer he is, in saving face shocker… Masters knows his race is run, that’s why the suits are writing his letters. I can’t imagine there will be many clubs in the league who have any respect or confidence left for a middle manager who has been promoted far beyond his capabilities and overseen this whole charade.
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I know people have skillsets in different areas, but how amateurish he looked speaking at the committee was a real eye opener. It looked like me when I've gone for a job interview and done no research at all.

It was noticeable how quiet the PL's little choice quoting fans on here were for a few days after that appearence.
 
Walken said:
I know people have skillsets in different areas, but how amateurish he looked speaking at the committee was a real eye opener. It looked like me when I've gone for a job interview and done no research at all.

It was noticeable how quiet the PL's little choice quoting fans on here were for a few days after that appearence.
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It was exactly that. I couldn’t believe how out of depth and ill prepared he was, it was patently obvious after only a minute or so he didn’t belong in that room on an intellectual or business level. I genuinely don’t believe for a second that the boardrooms of Premier league clubs haven’t all watched and cringed in unison at his display, his goose is cooked.
 

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Zatara said:
Couple of things...

A: Theyre the rules that every club signs up to in order to play in the premier league.

B: Previously the rules were such that stadiums (and other items) were not included in the calculations. This appears to have changed during the three year rolling period which is 'unfair'. The loans & calculations towards the stadium is where we've been caught out.
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Interesting how it didn't count while spurs were building a new stadium, Chelsea redeveloped Stamford Bridge, old Trafford was finished, the emirates was built.

But in the last 3 years just as the non cartel clubs are wanting to improve themselves the rules change.

A conspiracy theorist might look at that and think the timing seemed convenient
 
the golden visionary said:
Interesting how it didn't count while spurs were building a new stadium, Chelsea redeveloped Stamford Bridge, old Trafford was finished, the emirates was built.

But in the last 3 years just as the non cartel clubs are wanting to improve themselves the rules change.

A conspiracy theorist might look at that and think the timing seemed convenient
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The amusing one is West Ham.

But imagine if Luton become relegation dodgers...what happens when they need a stadium?

Its such an easy ruling and Masters has dug himself a large hole.
 

Zatara said:
Couple of things...

A: Theyre the rules that every club signs up to in order to play in the premier league.

B: Previously the rules were such that stadiums (and other items) were not included in the calculations. This appears to have changed during the three year rolling period which is 'unfair'. The loans & calculations towards the stadium is where we've been caught out.
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There has been zero new info since the IC report came out and the club were shocked and surprised, and yet the reasons and details flooding the internet change every hour.

Spending cash on a stadium has no impact on profit and loss, its capital investment, no impact on PSR. Interest on loans specifically for the purposes of stadium construction are deductible for PSR.

Interest on loans that supposedly are precluded for use on stadium expenditure but saying “if we used the other loan or Mosh’s interest free loan we wouldn’t have needed that loan that wasn’t for the stadium so we are going to allocate that interest anyway” is where we have made a mess it seems.

We haven’t been as shafted on loan interest as is often made out, CFO and Mosh cocked up but for genuine commercial reasons, so it still should be taken as genuine mitigation. They also sought to not mention any of this according to the report, with the commission concluding that it was always going to be discovered, so we were less than transparent. I think that was viewed very very badly.

I also find it weird we took loans out that supposedly say the funds can’t be used on the stadium. I would rather loan someone cash that is going into a permanent and wonderful asset rather than paying Benitez and Sammy Lee off. Odd one that.

I think our argument is fair that it was just commercially better to allocate the loan monies as was best for the club. But we did hand them loan agreements which proved our overspend as per the letter of the rules.

That all said, points deduction is still wildly inappropriate when you are talking about the wording of loan agreements.
 
HalfTimeSayers said:
There has been zero new info since the IC report came out and the club were shocked and surprised, and yet the reasons and details flooding the internet change every hour.

Spending cash on a stadium has no impact on profit and loss, its capital investment, no impact on PSR. Interest on loans specifically for the purposes of stadium construction are deductible for PSR.

Interest on loans that supposedly are precluded for use on stadium expenditure but saying “if we used the other loan or Mosh’s interest free loan we wouldn’t have needed that loan that wasn’t for the stadium so we are going to allocate that interest anyway” is where we have made a mess it seems.

We haven’t been as shafted on loan interest as is often made out, CFO and Mosh cocked up but for genuine commercial reasons, so it still should be taken as genuine mitigation. They also sought to not mention any of this according to the report, with the commission concluding that it was always going to be discovered, so we were less than transparent. I think that was viewed very very badly.

I also find it weird we took loans out that supposedly say the funds can’t be used on the stadium. I would rather loan someone cash that is going into a permanent and wonderful asset rather than paying Benitez and Sammy Lee off. Odd one that.

I think our argument is fair that it was just commercially better to allocate the loan monies as was best for the club. But we did hand them loan agreements which proved our overspend as per the letter of the rules.

That all said, points deduction is still wildly inappropriate when you are talking about the wording of loan agreements.
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No matter what has caused the turmoil surrounding the deduction...simply looking at the total amount (worse than administration) & the second charge (bizarre) we just need to point at the decisions in game.

Zero penalties.

Its the wording as well by Masters and the agenda that seems to be in play to continue to fire bullets after we surrendered which irks me.

6pts and game over would have been fair.

The transfer window and the likes of Forest, Chelsea and City next in the target line just smacks of slow and stupid thinking.
 

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