VAR

kenada_blue · November 15, 2023

FTY said:
Different when it's an attacker to when it's a defender

An attacker can control the ball with his arm...but a defender can't?

FTY · November 15, 2023

kenada_blue said:
An attacker can control the ball with his arm...but a defender can't?

Can't really remember but I think if an attacker accidentally handles it in the build up, but isn't the scorer, they don't disallow

kenada_blue · November 15, 2023

FTY said:
Can't really remember but I think if an attacker accidentally handles it in the build up, but isn't the scorer, they don't disallow

That's in context of accidental handball leading to a direct goal.

The point I'm making is that both players didn't deliberately handle the ball. Yet it favoured one player for a goal and punishes another.

Keane for example "accidentally" handled the ball as it was blasted at him from a few yards and is penalised. His arm was "unnatural"

But for Joelinton to do the same thing ie control the direction of the ball with his arm/hand as they're in an unnatural position (arms outstretched pushing a defender which is another contention)...it's not seen as a foul and allowed to help a goal.

The two are the same actions

arch stanton · November 15, 2023

kenada_blue said:
That's in context of accidental handball leading to a direct goal.

The point I'm making is that both players didn't deliberately handle the ball. Yet it favoured one player for a goal and punishes another.

Keane for example "accidentally" handled the ball as it was blasted at him from a few yards and is penalised. His arm was "unnatural"

But for Joelinton to do the same thing ie control the direction of the ball with his arm/hand as they're in an unnatural position (arms outstretched pushing a defender which is another contention)...it's not seen as a foul and allowed to help a goal.

The two are the same actions

they have got themselves in a real pickle with quite a few rules, handball and offside being the main ones. Making it up as they go along then pathetically justifying their biases afterwards, then patting themselves on the back for such a great job done

summerisle · November 15, 2023

kenada_blue said:
One aspect of this that has been completely overlooked is the handball by Joelinton.

The reason it wasn't handball is..."it's not deliberate and it's not the goalscorer."

Yet...we say this is handball not because it's 'deliberate' but because it's 'un-natural'

View attachment 235408

Aren't the two the same?

It all sounds so matey and amateurish.

blue61 · November 15, 2023

Stick VAR where the sun don't shine.

kenada_blue · November 15, 2023

arch stanton said:
they have got themselves in a real pickle with quite a few rules, handball and offside being the main ones. Making it up as they go along then pathetically justifying their biases afterwards, then patting themselves on the back for such a great job done

They have haven't they.

You'll never hear them say "not deliberate" aimed at a defender for handball cos that got binned years ago

arch stanton · November 15, 2023

kenada_blue said:
They have haven't they.

You'll never hear them say "not deliberate" aimed at a defender for handball cos that got binned years ago

whilst Keane was a dope, his arm was out there before the ball was kicked to him, he is many things but I doubt clairvoyancy is one of his attributes. I cant see anywhere in the laws of the game that mention this unnatural position/outside the silhouette tosh that is spouted these days

mistuhp · November 16, 2023

arch stanton said:
whilst Keane was a dope, his arm was out there before the ball was kicked to him, he is many things but I doubt clairvoyancy is one of his attributes. I cant see anywhere in the laws of the game that mention this unnatural position/outside the silhouette tosh that is spouted these days

The law is pretty clear. If your arm positioning is unnatural (and how he was standing, it absolutely is not natural to have it stuck out like that) in a way that makes yourself bigger, it is a handling offense. Otherwise walls would not need to jump; they could just stand there with their arms up.

From the link to the law:

It is an offence if a player: ...

touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised

chrismpw · November 16, 2023

kenada_blue said:
One aspect of this that has been completely overlooked is the handball by Joelinton.

The reason it wasn't handball is..."it's not deliberate and it's not the goalscorer."

Yet...we say this is handball not because it's 'deliberate' but because it's 'un-natural'

View attachment 235408

Aren't the two the same?

Foul by Joelinton before the handball, for me - dead ball free kick.

But then again I have no heavily sponsored agenda.

arch stanton · November 16, 2023

mistuhp said:
The law is pretty clear. If your arm positioning is unnatural (and how he was standing, it absolutely is not natural to have it stuck out like that) in a way that makes yourself bigger, it is a handling offense. Otherwise walls would not need to jump; they could just stand there with their arms up.

From the link to the law:

well this is a great example of them trying to be clever, the mass of the body cannot be made bigger during as football game, the position of the arm was a natural position whilst balancing sticking a leg out to stop the ball.

kenada_blue · November 16, 2023

mistuhp said:
The law is pretty clear. If your arm positioning is unnatural (and how he was standing, it absolutely is not natural to have it stuck out like that) in a way that makes yourself bigger, it is a handling offense. Otherwise walls would not need to jump; they could just stand there with their arms up.

From the link to the law:

I'm not defending Keane. By today's laws it's a penalty/foul.

The issue here is the officials stating a similar instance (unnatural position of the arms) by an attacker is not seen as an offence due to it being "accidental". In turn it leads to a goal.

Keane's is accidental. 99% of most handballs now are accidental.

In the controversy around the Newcastle goal, it's the 4th issue of contention that is brushed under the carpet. Where to me...it's the clearest one.

kenada_blue · November 16, 2023

chrismpw said:
Foul by Joelinton before the handball, for me - dead ball free kick.

But then again I have no heavily sponsored agenda.

Yeah. But as they say it's subjective and the refs opinion. But the handball? Not for me.

Gordon had a similar one against Sheff United where he kept the ball in with his hand and they scored. A defender does that...it's reviewed and no doubt a penalty.

FTY · November 16, 2023

Main issue is the fact it's ruined the best part of football, and the reason we put ourselves through it - celebrating goals

Like Doucoure's goal Saturday, could barely enjoy it because I knew a check was coming

Sack it off

BainesontoastNEW · November 27, 2023

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Free kicks, corners and 2nd yellow cards to be checked by VAR if "lawmakers" consider the ideas worthy, according to an article by Martin Ziegler in The Tlmes. Just imagine...