New Everton Stadium Discussion

Barmy.

Considering the benefits of BMD versus Goodison Park, modern, new facilities, waterfront location, and the likelihood there will be "tourist fans" (no matter what people feel, about tourist fans, they are welcome), it's very limiting of Everton to have such a low capacity. But that's par for the course with our less than inspiring board.
Agreed.

60,000 seems to be the absolute minimum for new Premier League stadia these days.

Bitterly disappointing from our board. They have really missed a trick given that our season ticket waiting list is above 20,000.

But is anyone that surprised at their lack of ambition?
 
Agreed.

60,000 seems to be the absolute minimum for new Premier League stadia these days.

Bitterly disappointing from our board. They have really missed a trick given that our season ticket waiting list is above 20,000.

But is anyone that surprised at their lack of ambition?
What we, arguably, lack in quantity will be more than compensated for in terms of quality.

Location, location, location.
 
Agreed.

60,000 seems to be the absolute minimum for new Premier League stadia these days.

Bitterly disappointing from our board. They have really missed a trick given that our season ticket waiting list is above 20,000.

But is anyone that surprised at their lack of ambition?

It is all about balancing cost and basic suppy/demand economics. Total stadium cost against capacity isn't a very linear relationship. Cost can almost double for every 10k increase above 40k, because the volume and often the complexity of construction rises substantially as the stadium height increases. Does anyone know the cost of the initial 60k option? Needless to say, that would've come with substantial Commonwealth Games funding. As soon as that bid failed, the proposed capacity fell to 53k.

Our 20k waiting list (if genuine) has been based on very low ticket prices (especially for kids and concessions). It's possibly also based slightly on the heightened anticipation of BMD and people wanting to secure their seat in a limited capacity Goodison. Of course you can also say that on the otherhand that's achieved despite poor facilities, obstructed views and poor team performance. However, they would normally also want a healthy surplus demand to help drive those ticket prices up, to help pay for it asap.

Unlike West Ham, this isn't a freeby. Far from it, and if they're going to get any ROI, they need to ensure every seat is sold out regularly and at a decent rate. They also won't want too many spare general admission seats when they're hoping to be able to push more corporate and corporate lite seats too (who's going to pay massively over the odds when there's still perfectly good views available?). So it is a balancing act.

West Ham had to practically give their tickets away to fill the London Stadium. So much so that their matchday income barely increased at all when they first moved, despite adding 20k plus to their capacity. This capacity has been steadily increasing as West Ham have slowly tapped into the latent support in greater London and the home counties, plus tourists. With that and increased loyalty of those new regulars, their matchday income has started to increase slightly. West Ham had never had over 40k averages in their history at the Boleyn ground, so this has been a major step up. But one probably only achieveable because of the miniscule cost per seat they've had to pay out.

Of course, if Moshiri/new owners was/were able to absorb that cost for a few years via an inflated naming rights or plain philanthropy, we might've been able to do similar...... but beyond that it's hard to see how those sums add up for a £500-750m stadium (representing approx 30% capacity increase), never mind much beyond that cost.

The other issue then is future-proofing of the stadium for any future increase in demand (if they've seriously under-estmated and/or there is any success). They're may be some potential increase if safe-standing at increased ratio is ever allowed.... but that may be quite limited. Colin Chong said that he believed any future increases would probably come from expansion on the sides.... with more lenient planning for an established stadium. Of course this wouldn't be cheap and might compromise the signature barrel roof aesthetic. Maybe it would become more Armadillo-like with a partial raised barrel. Perhaps the north stand could be expanded if that space is acquired....
 

Agreed.

60,000 seems to be the absolute minimum for new Premier League stadia these days.

Bitterly disappointing from our board. They have really missed a trick given that our season ticket waiting list is above 20,000.

But is anyone that surprised at their lack of ambition?
Another few seasons like the ones we've been having and a rise in cost of a season ticket would mean 52/53k is probably sensible - this season was the closest i've came to not renewing

The stadium can cater for 60k with some safe standing I believe
 
The other issue then is future-proofing of the stadium for any future increase in demand (if they've seriously under-estmated and/or there is any success). They're may be some potential increase if safe-standing at increased ratio is ever allowed.... but that may be quite limited. Colin Chong said that he believed any future increases would probably come from expansion on the sides.... with more lenient planning for an established stadium. Of course this wouldn't be cheap and might compromise the signature barrel roof aesthetic. Maybe it would become more Armadillo-like with a partial raised barrel. Perhaps the north stand could be expanded if that space is acquired....
There'd always be another story spun about a new design. To be quite honest this 'wave' concept seems very weak to me in any case. If we are a success at the docks then there is the space on the concourse side to build up. That proposed Herzog stadium at Portsmouth docks showed how an asymmetric design could look.

On finances and making this stadium pay its way: non-football events will have to do a lot of heavy lifting. The dockland stadium needs to be made a consistent part of the venues for big musical and non-football sporting events.
 

Another few seasons like the ones we've been having and a rise in cost of a season ticket would mean 52/53k is probably sensible - this season was the closest i've came to not renewing

The stadium can cater for 60k with some safe standing I believe

how would safe standing increase the capacity? pretty sure its 1:1 ratio to the seating
 
Is the stadium being built with a view to expanding it in the future, or has that not been taken into consideration? I have no idea how easy it is to add x thousand more seats to an already-built stadium, but you'd hope the club would have thought about this in the very faint hope that we enjoy some success in the next 30-odd years. I understand that adding standing / removing seats to enable this would increase capacity, but what about adding more seats only?
 

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