Hold Your Horses People...

[Tubey]

I half agree with what you're saying, but speaking for myself Moyes is getting grief from me due to his dubious tactical decisions on multiple occasions and frankly bizarre usage of assets available to him.

Yes, the pathetic excuse for an owner and the bunch of invisibles on the board is the top reason for our inevitable decline, but if you honestly believe Moyes is blameless for our performances then you're kidding yourself.

Arteta and Pienaar were here last season until January and we were every bit as bad then as well. That's all Moyes.

 

[Loz]

The issues is though the post-2008 era we're now in. The bubble burst. So values declined.

Plus remember that there might not of been the players available / wishing to come at the time. Or we were priced out by other clubs.

The Pienaar example. He wanted to stay. Everton continued to expand the wage bill but the ceiling was reached. Then we entered the post-2008 era with much doubts regarding financing.

For me the key structural problem at Everton is the board. For the reasons already described because they've failed to increase turnover (infrastructure) and failed to make us self financing which is the model that Kenwright in particular needs.

So Moyes is now taking the heat due to decisions made by this board.

That's a fair point.....though with the sort of prices being paid by Chelsea and Man City for players...there is still some money out there (£50m for Torres....honestly??).

I have to confess to not being the biggest David Moyes fan but, to his credit, he gave it a go yesterday. I was in favour of a 4-4-2 last night and things would have been different but for three unfortunate injuries that meant that we had to leave three players (Donovan, Straq and Saha) on the pitch who would usually only play an hour max. They faded in the second half and Bolton just put us under pressure and the defence (hindered by losing Jagielka) couldn't cope.

The problem is, as you rightly say, the Board. There's no real plan to generate turnover. A bit more expenditure in the last few years may have opened the door to regular european football and the millions that can generate in revenue. We have now missed the boat and will probably never crack the top four again. It's true that Goodison, romantic old ground that she is, has no executive facilities. However, how many exec boxes will be filled with us playing our current standard of football. Clubs like Chelsea filled their boxes because they portrayed an image of being a fancy, fashionable and affluent club....even before they actually won anything. The same can no longer be said for Everton.

A few years ago, we had an Asian player (Li Ti or something). He featured sporadically as a sub and then disappeared. In view of the standard of the team around him, we should have played him for 90 minutes every game and done our best to raise his profile at the club and sell some shirts in the far east. We just didn't exploit that market. You look at Man U....last night Park was hopeless but they still played him. I bet there are a fair few people in his homeland wearing red shirts. We need a marketing machine.

 

[Matt Damon]

I half agree with what you're saying, but speaking for myself Moyes is getting grief from me due to his dubious tactical decisions on multiple occasions and frankly bizarre usage of assets available to him.

Yes, the pathetic excuse for an owner and the bunch of invisibles on the board is the top reason for our inevitable decline, but if you honestly believe Moyes is blameless for our performances then you're kidding yourself.

Arteta and Pienaar were here last season until January and we were every bit as bad then as well. That's all Moyes.

Were we?



I'll go on "kidding myself" in the knowledge that Moyes wanted to get this player and that player but has been unable to. I'll also not go on kidding myself some people aren't actively looking for things to criticise him over.

Barkley is just this week's 4-4-2 which was the week before's substitutions.

Imagine what would happen if Moyes played 4-4-2, with Barkley in the midfield and brought on two strikers to change it up and still lost....

GOT would be in utter meltdown.

 

[Matt Damon]

That's a fair point.....though with the sort of prices being paid by Chelsea and Man City for players...there is still some money out there (£50m for Torres....honestly??).

I have to confess to not being the biggest David Moyes fan but, to his credit, he gave it a go yesterday. I was in favour of a 4-4-2 last night and things would have been different but for three unfortunate injuries that meant that we had to leave three players (Donovan, Straq and Saha) on the pitch who would usually only play an hour max. They faded in the second half and Bolton just put us under pressure and the defence (hindered by losing Jagielka) couldn't cope.

The problem is, as you rightly say, the Board. There's no real plan to generate turnover. A bit more expenditure in the last few years may have opened the door to regular european football and the millions that can generate in revenue. We have now missed the boat and will probably never crack the top four again. It's true that Goodison, romantic old ground that she is, has no executive facilities. However, how many exec boxes will be filled with us playing our current standard of football. Clubs like Chelsea filled their boxes because they portrayed an image of being a fancy, fashionable and affluent club....even before they actually won anything. The same can no longer be said for Everton.

A few years ago, we had an Asian player (Li Ti or something). He featured sporadically as a sub and then disappeared. In view of the standard of the team around him, we should have played him for 90 minutes every game and done our best to raise his profile at the club and sell some shirts in the far east. We just didn't exploit that market. You look at Man U....last night Park was hopeless but they still played him. I bet there are a fair few people in his homeland wearing red shirts. We need a marketing machine.

I appreciate your reasonableness.

I guarantee one thing. Neville won't be in midfield next week especially if Fellaini is available.

And Saha won't be passing it backwards instead of pressing forward either. There won't be encouragement from the sidelines from Moyes to him if he does.

Not sure what was going on with some players yesterday who seemed to assist Bolton more than help themselves.

Some of them need to get their aggression back.

 

[Azzurri]

That's a fair point.....though with the sort of prices being paid by Chelsea and Man City for players...there is still some money out there (£50m for Torres....honestly??).

I have to confess to not being the biggest David Moyes fan but, to his credit, he gave it a go yesterday. I was in favour of a 4-4-2 last night and things would have been different but for three unfortunate injuries that meant that we had to leave three players (Donovan, Straq and Saha) on the pitch who would usually only play an hour max. They faded in the second half and Bolton just put us under pressure and the defence (hindered by losing Jagielka) couldn't cope.

The problem is, as you rightly say, the Board. There's no real plan to generate turnover. A bit more expenditure in the last few years may have opened the door to regular european football and the millions that can generate in revenue. We have now missed the boat and will probably never crack the top four again. It's true that Goodison, romantic old ground that she is, has no executive facilities. However, how many exec boxes will be filled with us playing our current standard of football. Clubs like Chelsea filled their boxes because they portrayed an image of being a fancy, fashionable and affluent club....even before they actually won anything. The same can no longer be said for Everton.

A few years ago, we had an Asian player (Li Ti or something). He featured sporadically as a sub and then disappeared. In view of the standard of the team around him, we should have played him for 90 minutes every game and done our best to raise his profile at the club and sell some shirts in the far east. We just didn't exploit that market. You look at Man U....last night Park was hopeless but they still played him. I bet there are a fair few people in his homeland wearing red shirts. We need a marketing machine.

No. What utter rubbish. That's not why Park played in the slightest.

We need the best possible 11 players on the pitch at all times.

Selling a thousand more shirts in a foreign country isn't going to solve our financial worries. And to suggest sacrificing the good of the team to do so is ridiculous.

 

[Loz]

I appreciate your reasonableness.

I guarantee one thing. Neville won't be in midfield next week especially if Fellaini is available.

And Saha won't be passing it backwards instead of pressing forward either. There won't be encouragement from the sidelines from Moyes to him if he does.



Not sure what was going on with some players yesterday who seemed to assist Bolton more than help themselves.

Some of them need to get their aggression back.

Exactly.....Neville does seem a tad past his best now. Leadership skills are all well and good but if you can't run, pass, shoot or tackle anymore then your days must be numbered. Saha's a strange one though....he still seems to have a bit of pace and knows where to be but has lost all inclination as to where the goal is and how to connect with the ball. Perhaps a bit of blindfolded shooting practice may help him as I think faith in the force is the only thing we have left now.

 

[Matt Damon]

Exactly.....Neville does seem a tad past his best now. Leadership skills are all well and good but if you can't run, pass, shoot or tackle anymore then your days must be numbered. Saha's a strange one though....he still seems to have a bit of pace and knows where to be but has lost all inclination as to where the goal is and how to connect with the ball. Perhaps a bit of blindfolded shooting practice may help him as I think faith in the force is the only thing we have left now.

I was bewildered by some of the players yesterday. I agree blindfolded shooting practice or Moyes throwing them into a cold swimming pool may be the only way to go. Wake one or two up with a bit of aggression on the pitch.


We've been in a very corrosive atmosphere all season. Sparked for me by the board liquidating assets with no replacements. That caused it. Moyes is a great manager but for me the board are undermining him.

Also Moyes isn't a Benitez and so won't go public (and ruin his reputation) but he will make sly digs which in a political environment with this board is how it should be done, because if the board do sod off and the millions do come in who should be the one spending it?

For me Moyes like.


But again. The cause is this board who seemingly can't seem to find a few pennies between them even when we need it. Why are they in charge of a football club then? Particularly one in the top division.

This type of board would be fine in the lower divisions. But not for an elite club.

 

[Loz]

No. What utter rubbish. That's not why Park played in the slightest.

We need the best possible 11 players on the pitch at all times.

Selling a thousand more shirts in a foreign country isn't going to solve our financial worries. And to suggest sacrificing the good of the team to do so is ridiculous.

So you honestly think that clubs like Man U buy players from the far east solely for their footballing abilities and not becuase of the huge market that can be exploited. I think that they will have sold more than a few thousand shirts with Park's name on as well as those for the rest of the squad. In case you hadn't noticed, China has a rather large population and also quite a large economy at the moment...there are plenty of people there with some money to spend and if we could get them to spend it on a blue shirt rather than in the Selfridges sale then that would be good for the club wouldn't it?

Or, we could spend £10m on a player like Bily who is far less talented than Li Ti was. Has anyone bought a Bily shirt yet? Anyone?

 

[Azzurri]

So you honestly think that clubs like Man U buy players from the far east solely for their footballing abilities and not becuase of the huge market that can be exploited. I think that they will have sold more than a few thousand shirts with Park's name on as well as those for the rest of the squad. In case you hadn't noticed, China has a rather large population and also quite a large economy at the moment...there are plenty of people there with some money to spend and if we could get them to spend it on a blue shirt rather than in the Selfridges sale then that would be good for the club wouldn't it?

Or, we could spend £10m on a player like Bily who is far less talented than Li Ti was. Has anyone bought a Bily shirt yet? Anyone?

Bought? Highly unlikely.
Played? Definitely not.

As gash as Bily is Li Tie was no better.

If we did but a player from the East and he sold 20,000 shirts over there that'd give us enough money to pay just Heitinga a week's wages. That's a mental theory of yours.

 

[Great Dane]

Were we?



I'll go on "kidding myself" in the knowledge that Moyes wanted to get this player and that player but has been unable to. I'll also not go on kidding myself some people aren't actively looking for things to criticise him over.

Barkley is just this week's 4-4-2 which was the week before's substitutions.

Imagine what would happen if Moyes played 4-4-2, with Barkley in the midfield and brought on two strikers to change it up and still lost....

GOT would be in utter meltdown.

I actually think that quite a lot of posters incl. myself would say that Moyes at least tried. That is the difference. When we won at WBA I still thought all of Moyes' flaws were displayed and the win changed nothing for me.

 

[somuchfun]

*posts image of equine porn.

Oh wrong thread.

 

[Desaparecido]

I think it's time for one of the special 'team building' exercises in the Lake District or suhtn'...building a raft or whatevs.

FFS

 

[Loz]

Bought? Highly unlikely.
Played? Definitely not.

As gash as Bily is Li Tie was no better.

If we did but a player from the East and he sold 20,000 shirts over there that'd give us enough money to pay just Heitinga a week's wages. That's a mental theory of yours.

Ok Azzurri....we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I just think that the club have find ways to generate more revenue. We can't increase gate revenues much, can't sell any more players (at least not the ones who are worth anything) and can't qualify for revenue-generating tournaments. Therefore, we have to market ourselves to those members of the human race who may not have a particular premiership allegiance to try to sell merchandise and agree better sponsorship deals.

 

[Azzurri]

Ok Azzurri....we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I just think that the club have find ways to generate more revenue. We can't increase gate revenues much, can't sell any more players (at least not the ones who are worth anything) and can't qualify for revenue-generating tournaments. Therefore, we have to market ourselves to those members of the human race who may not have a particular premiership allegiance to try to sell merchandise and agree better sponsorship deals.

I agree that we do need to find a way to promote revenue, but playing sh*t players just to sell a few shirts in big countries isn't a sensible or good enough way of doing it.

 

[Blue_Arsed_Fly]

Bought? Highly unlikely.
Played? Definitely not.

As gash as Bily is Li Tie was no better.

If we did but a player from the East and he sold 20,000 shirts over there that'd give us enough money to pay just Heitinga a week's wages. That's a mental theory of yours.

Li Tie was a tidy passer, great worker, Chinese captain & an ever present back when Moyes was a breath of fresh air & played 3 up top (parallel universe or what!). He then broke his leg & spent a year out but never recovered sufficiently to get back to his efficient best. I quite liked him & he was a lot better than he seems to have been remembered. Shame.