Very interesting article on how Everton's Secret Finch Farm room

[BoysInBlue]

There's a few things at play.

Moyes gets lauded for what he achieved at Everton, like he did 'the best things ever', yet there's EFC fans over a certain age who have seen us win things, and therefore don't view Moyes 'achievements' as that special.

The national media are pushing hard how Moyes will become an all time great, and by virtue of that, the story being told is that Everton will fall apart without him, because he's so good.

Again, this gets peoples backs up. Many don't think we will fall apart.

It's a tough balancing act between recognising his 'achievement at Everton' but at the same time realising he isn't the be all and end all to the club.

 

[allen]

Moyes gets lauded for what he achieved at Everton, like he did 'the best things ever', yet there's EFC fans over a certain age who have seen us win things, and therefore don't view Moyes 'achievements' as that special.

It's all about context.

In the context of our illustrious history, Moyes' achievements weren't especially notable.

In the context of the last 20 years, he performed minor miracles.

It depends what you bring to the table where you fall on that spectrum of opinion.

 

[Groucho]

It's all about context.

In the context of our illustrious history, Moyes' achievements weren't especially notable.

In the context of the last 20 years, he performed minor miracles.

It depends what you bring to the table where you fall on that spectrum of opinion.

I agree. Compared to 1985 he was poor - compared to 1997/8 he was astounding.

And although his manner of leaving has left a bad taste for me (and I'm backing Martinez now anyway), he's something of a modern day Gordon Lee - finished top 4, wasn't bad, didn't win a trophy.

 

[Tubey]

It's exactly what I feel about Moyes - a master in the transfer market because he's cautious to a fault; yet those same qualities made him next to useless in the tactical battle during the 90 minutes of a game.

 

[BoysInBlue]

It's all about context.

In the context of our illustrious history, Moyes' achievements weren't especially notable.

In the context of the last 20 years, he performed minor miracles.

It depends what you bring to the table where you fall on that spectrum of opinion.

I agree. Compared to 1985 he was poor - compared to 1997/8 he was astounding.

And although his manner of leaving has left a bad taste for me (and I'm backing Martinez now anyway), he's something of a modern day Gordon Lee - finished top 4, wasn't bad, didn't win a trophy.

Agree with both you, spot on.

I think if Martinez were to win a cup for us, Moyes will almost certainly be viewed as the nearly man.

How Martinez does will determine how Moyes legacy is viewed.

 

[blueblue]

I appreciate that David Moyes turned us from relgation certaintities(imo) to top four contenders in his time at Everton.

But, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't look critically at his signings or the way he went about his business.
In recent years apart from Gibson and most importantly Coleman what players young or old have we picked up for small money that have become major successes.
I am not talking about established players who were bought for the going rate.
For instance would we compare favourably with Spurs who have brought through Caulker,Walker and Bale .

I think David Moyes did well, he certainly had the ability to get players to play right up to the best of their ability and he certainly picked up some bargains.

However if we compare what he did to what Howard Kendall did when he built his team in the 1980s there is no comparision as to who performed best on a shoestring budget.
Southall,Reid(when the club had to change banks to get a 60k loan to buy the player)Sheedy,Gray,Bailey,Sharp.

 

[royalblue66]

If Bobby can go to places like the pit and win, and win some silver Moyes will be yesterday's man.

 

[nigelcoyb]

It's about winning things it really is that simple.

Going down all guns blazing fighting like lions might temper failure but we lost important games like complete tarts.

At times I was ashamed at what that man produced in the name of EFC, stability or not.

 

[SheedyBracewellReidSteven]

Nice insight that. I'd loved to see what Moyes would have been capable of here had we any sort of budget to compete with the top teams, it's a sorry situation that we never got that chance.

We are seeing that now at Man U? Nobody of any standing seems to want to sign for him!

Until he gets Fellaini and Baines, that is........

 

[Timak]

For instance would we compare favourably with Spurs who have brought through Caulker,Walker and Bale .
.

Bale was £7m (and was originally going to be £11m)
Walker £4m
Caulker was a youth team player who left after only 18 games in the first team by the age of 21

 

[WA Toffee]

I appreciate that David Moyes turned us from relgation certaintities(imo) to top four contenders in his time at Everton.

But, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't look critically at his signings or the way he went about his business.
In recent years apart from Gibson and most importantly Coleman what players young or old have we picked up for small money that have become major successes.
I am not talking about established players who were bought for the going rate.
For instance would we compare favourably with Spurs who have brought through Caulker,Walker and Bale .

I think David Moyes did well, he certainly had the ability to get players to play right up to the best of their ability and he certainly picked up some bargains.

However if we compare what he did to what Howard Kendall did when he built his team in the 1980s there is no comparision as to who performed best on a shoestring budget.
Southall,Reid(when the club had to change banks to get a 60k loan to buy the player)Sheedy,Gray,Bailey,Sharp.

Didn't Moyes try to sign Walker and Bale before they went to Spurs for more money? With a bit of backing from the board they would have been playing for us.

It is also quite a difficult comparison to make - Spurs have been buying players left right and centre for the last few years, so chances are they are going to hit gold every so often. What about the many many players they have bought that are instantly forgotten because they are cr@p.
Because we follow Everton, we are naturally more aware of every signing Moyes has made and which haven't worked out. I would guess that 90% of posters could tell you every transfer in and out Everton have made in the last 5 years - how many Spurs signings do you think we could name - probably about 20%, and they would be the successful ones

 

[allen]

Spurs have been buying players left right and centre for the last few years, so chances are they are going to hit gold every so often.

Precisely. It's basically dumb luck and an excess of cash that got them Bale.

 

[Khalekan]

Why is this "journalist" being lauded as some kind oif a sage here?

Oh, I know.

It makes them as are missing the Lost Leader feel good about the "glory days" of hovering around sixth or seventh place and always finishibg above teams recently promoted from the Championship.

And once. a long time ago, finishing fourth.

That article, my friends is all just complicated claptrap.

This bit in particular is bizarre:

Each scout must assess every player under the age of 24 at his match, and grade them on specific aspects of performance. Moyes has produced what he calls "an MOT Test", where players are judged against a checklist of up to 12 criteria for each position.

So if there are, at a conservative under-estimated guess, ten players under 24 on the pitch, this "scout" is expected to keep a close eye on every one of them and "grade" them on the strength of it?

And someone mentioned that it is only coming to light now because Moyes is at OT and was shot down because the Finch Farm tour happened over a year ago.

Very true.....but no import was attached to it untilo now, when the newspapers are falling over themselves to dig up sommat new to say about the new man at United.

Moyes and blokes like him compliocate the game way too much.

No wonder he sat dithering on the sidelines like a rabbit caught in a stoat's glare.....his mind was full of all that claptrap.

 

[Timak]

Usual daily bile spouted at our ex-manager

Did Moyes hold your family hostage or something?

I can understand you didn't enjoy the football we played under him. However if you cannot see that having the 6th best average finish, in an era of multiple clubs being billionaire ownered then I don't understand your logic.

If every other team was relegated at some point this does not back up your argument. It makes it even worse because it makes us not being relegated an achievement. You never acknowledge this because it destroys your entire agenda.

 

[swisso]

.. snip..

Moyes and blokes like him complicate the game way too much.

Oh deary me.

You mean blokes like Villas-Boas, Ancelotti, Capello, Mourinho, Guardiola and Pellegrini who are known to indulge in "complicated claptrap" ?

You stick to your 'Big Sam' football methodologies mate.