Very interesting article on how Everton's Secret Finch Farm room

[Khalekan]

Oh deary me.

You mean blokes like Villas-Boas, Ancelotti, Capello, Mourinho, Guardiola and Pellegrini who are known to indulge in "complicated claptrap" ?

You stick to your 'Big Sam' football methodologies mate.

No.

I mean boys like Moyes.

And indeed Big Sam, as both he and Moyes are cut from the same cloth of stats and sports scientists and but for his Uncle Bill putting up with him for the last few years, Moyes would have been on the same managerial merry go round as his great mate Sam.

 

[Khalekan]

Did Moyes hold your family hostage or something?

I can understand you didn't enjoy the football we played under him. However if you cannot see that having the 6th best average finish, in an era of multiple clubs being billionaire ownered then I don't understand your logic.

If every other team was relegated at some point this does not back up your argument. It makes it even worse because it makes us not being relegated an achievement. You never acknowledge this because it destroys your entire agenda.

The "6th best" average finsh?

What does that even mean?

Let me try and decipher it.

It means that during Moyes's tenure at Goodison, he had the sixth highest average finish among teams that were in the EPL during that period?

Am I right?

Ergo only five teams had an "average higher finish" than EFC.

They would be, let me guess.....United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool.

Which means we finish above three teams only.

One of those would be Citeh......but finishing above Citeh is now in the dim and distant past.

And the other two would be Villa and Fulham.

There are only nine teams eligible for your bizarre "league table".

Do you know why?

Because all other eleven EPL teams have at some stage in the Moyes reign been in the Championship and thus they were playing catch up with Moyes.

So to sum up......by your own admission Moyes achievement of an "average 6th highest finish" (or whatever such claptrap you wrapped it up in) was actually less than halfway up the table.

The sum total of your argument is that during Moye's stint, he finished above Fulham and Villa more than they finished above him.

Big whoop......well done, Davey.

Let me say it again because some people round here look at the world through Moyes tinted specs.

Everton under Moyes acheived nowt.

Never won a trophy.....never played in the CL proper.

Some fellows state with a righteous fervour that without Moyes we would have been relegated.

Why they say this I do not know.....Everton have never really done relegation since the day and hour the Football League came into existence.

We have been relegated twice.....long, long ago before most who post here were even born.

Billy Bingham, Gordon Lee, Colin Harvey, Mike Walker and Walter Smith were similiarly unsuccessful managera at Everton and they never got us relegated.

In short, being in charge of a team which wasn't relegated is not "success" no matter how much fans of The Moyesiah try to say it is.

It is competence at best......under achieving at worst.

Everton under Moyes were no better than they ought to have been.

 

[The Hibbert Agenda]

People really really really feel scorned by Moyes.

I reckon if he chose not to sign a new contract and decided he needed a break after 11 years people wouldn't be saying he was terrible. Or if he went to some rubbish club for whatever reason.

I think people just hurt a bit that he's gone to the league's most successful club. If he succeeds there and is a fantastic manager like lots of media say he is/will be, this will just highlight how shiyt EFC are atm-- that even with a top manager the ceiling is there.

For the record I don't really know or even care too much if he does succeed. I'm only concerned by Bertie. But the inane repeated ramblings of the Moyes haters are getting real boring.

 

[Timak]

Because all other eleven EPL teams have at some stage in the Moyes reign been in the Championship and thus they were playing catch up with Moyes.
.

Laughable.

Do you honestly think that under Walker, HK III and Smith we weren't in danger of relegation because "we are Everton"?

Our average finish in the 11 years before Moyes was 14th place, often with much greater financial backing then we've enjoyed in the last decade.

We survived on the last day of the season on 2 occasions and were in danger with 3 to 4 games to go numerous times.

I know you are embarrassed that a manager you continually attack as rubbish has been given the biggest job in world football. It must be humiliating and you are reacting by lashing out, I think it would be healthier if you just accepted that you've been proven massively, massively wrong.

 

[4737carlin]

I know you are embarrassed that a manager you continually attack as rubbish has been given the biggest job in world football. It must be humiliating and you are reacting by lashing out, I think it would be healthier if you just accepted that you've been proven massively, massively wrong.

To be fair you can only those who doubt Moyes as a top manager have been proven wrong if Moyes wins the title this season, simply by following Sir Alex on its own doesn't prove anything since a lot of top managers might not of wanted to follow in his footsteps, leaving the position open, if Mourinho..etc would of wanted the united job we would still be stuck with Moyes

 

[swisso]

No.

I mean boys like Moyes.

And indeed Big Sam, as both he and Moyes are cut from the same cloth of stats and sports scientists and but for his Uncle Bill putting up with him for the last few years, Moyes would have been on the same managerial merry go round as his great mate Sam.

Sadly the thread has gone way off topic, but back to the scouting methods used by Moyes.

Would you not agree that the players he's brought in, have largely (there's been a few charlies in 11 years we all agree!) been of a certain personality and have shown certain positive traits on the pitch? Determined, hard workers, work for the team and humble? There always seems to be a better team spirit than the majority of other clubs.

I would argue that those traits have been identified in the players he's tried to acquire (his MOT test if you will) from your Bents to your Mirallas' and it's not a coincidence that they've largely proved to be excellent team players once they've signed.

Now you can either believe that he's identified positive traits in these players, or that they've turned out to be good team players by their own nature.

 

[Billy Dean]

Laughable.

Do you honestly think that under Walker, HK III and Smith we weren't in danger of relegation because "we are Everton"?

Our average finish in the 11 years before Moyes was 14th place, often with much greater financial backing then we've enjoyed in the last decade.

We survived on the last day of the season on 2 occasions and were in danger with 3 to 4 games to go numerous times.

I know you are embarrassed that a manager you continually attack as rubbish has been given the biggest job in world football. It must be humiliating and you are reacting by lashing out, I think it would be healthier if you just accepted that you've been proven massively, massively wrong.

1. It's not the biggest job in world football
2. I'm not one of the ones saying Moyes was crap (despite having certain gripes with him), but probably best to wait to see what Moyes does at Man U before talking about being proved wrong etc.

 

[Billy Dean]

Sadly the thread has gone way off topic, but back to the scouting methods used by Moyes.

Would you not agree that the players he's brought in, have largely (there's been a few charlies in 11 years we all agree!) been of a certain personality and have shown certain positive traits on the pitch? Determined, hard workers, work for the team and humble? There always seems to be a better team spirit than the majority of other clubs.

I would argue that those traits have been identified in the players he's tried to acquire (his MOT test if you will) from your Bents to your Mirallas' and it's not a coincidence that they've largely proved to be excellent team players once they've signed.

Now you can either believe that he's identified positive traits in these players, or that they've turned out to be good team players by their own nature.

Arteta said when he joined that it was like a family at Everton, unlike any club he had been at before

 

[steken1]

Sadly the thread has gone way off topic, but back to the scouting methods used by Moyes.

Would you not agree that the players he's brought in, have largely (there's been a few charlies in 11 years we all agree!) been of a certain personality and have shown certain positive traits on the pitch? Determined, hard workers, work for the team and humble? There always seems to be a better team spirit than the majority of other clubs.

I would argue that those traits have been identified in the players he's tried to acquire (his MOT test if you will) from your Bents to your Mirallas' and it's not a coincidence that they've largely proved to be excellent team players once they've signed.

Now you can either believe that he's identified positive traits in these players, or that they've turned out to be good team players by their own nature.

I think by and large the players he signed where in his own image to a degree. The only time that cost us was in really big games.

It was no coincidence players who left commented on the atmosphere and as you say it was no coincidence we signed those that would fit in. He was/is extremely good in that area of management.

 

[swisso]

I'd agree with that, personally, and its another topic, i feel it was his own management during matches that let him down when it mattered.

Who knows, it may well be that after 2-3 years of this group with Martinez we'll see that they have nothing more to give and 6th/7th is the best they can achieve.

 

[steken1]

I'd agree with that, personally, and its another topic, i feel it was his own management during matches that let him down when it mattered.

Who knows, it may well be that after 2-3 years of this group with Martinez we'll see that they have nothing more to give and 6th/7th is the best they can achieve.

It's possible that could be the case.

The only thing I'd say is that players are there to be moulded/manipulated and a really good man manager will do that to his advantage. There's no one to do that with a manager, assuming, the chairman plays no significant role.

I often felt we were beat before we went out in bigger games. That takes nothing from his ability to spot a great player for relative buttons.