The 5/4/2016 pro Martinez thread

[Brownie86]

In my eyes Martinez was lucky in his first season and his real qualities have been shown since.

The first season the defence still had Moyes' defensive drills in their heads and so they could actually defend and keep shape, added with Martinez' attacking we had a brilliant season, there's no arguing with that.

But since then they are used to Martinez' training drills and it shows, we have been piss poor for 18 months and if it wasnt for Lukaku being amazing and scoring as much as he has, we would be in the relegation zone without a pot to pee in.

He needs to go and I hope Moshiri does so regardless of what happens for the rest of the season

 

[Jimmy1]

Well the reference was to players going and other things that could happen so no point me answering any of that.
And the point was about people who think things could change not being delusional. Again not relevant.
Ta for reply

If you read it carefully I used the word 'might' which isn't beyond the realms of possibility given our current situation.

 

[PhilM]

To be fair to @The_Rat he's given his opinion and then justified it with the most reasonable arguments I've heard, so each to their own.

I disagree of course with his point of view and yes some may automatically think WUM, but I know other Blues who are still giving Martinez hope.

Let's not get sucked into the mentality that all those who aren't swaying towards Martinez being deposed are here simply to fish.

Nevertheless I would say as others have mentioned, that the likes of Kendall and Ferguson are in the majority of cases the exception to the rule.

Some managers may take time to develop and will eventually deliver success; most managers who are poor though are poor in the long-term.

So it then boils down to how much progression and adaptability we see in Martinez. Defensively I've seen little to none so that's a no from me!

Offensively yes it's some of the best glimpses of football we've seen, and that does offer some hope, but then I think we're still a long way off.

Away from home we've looked exceptional at times, but on others occasions (like Sunday) we looked limp. At home it's a totally different story...

... slow, turgid and clueless of how to grasp a game. We simply play the ball around with a slow demeanour, trying to eventually find a break.

Does all that offer enough glimpses that it will eventually click on a regular occasion? Again, for me no it's not. So I can't see it changing.

That's my opinion though, and other people have rightfully got theirs. In the end, it's down to our the board's opinion whether we stick or twist.

I'd be more than happy to admit I was wrong if Martinez was able to miraculously turn things around. The problem is, I just don't think he will.

 

[Lanolin]

I hear you. But maybe we should've sacked Kendall (which the vast majority wanted, just like now) and have no history to speak of since 1970.

It's a legit argument tho. If United sacked fergie (which the vast majority wanted) then they don't have the history they have now. Absolutely nowhere near it infact.

We'll never know what would have happened though. Maybe we'd have sacked Kendall and appointed Ferguson, and instead of a good couple of years, we'd have had the prolonged success that United had. Maybe United would have sacked Ferguson and taken a plunge on a foreign manager, somebody like Cruyff who then revolutionises football in this country, and puts in place the model that Barcelona have now, ensuring lasting success for United, and more European trophies than Ferguson could manage. Maybe we would both have been better off sacking our managers, but we mistakenly think we made the right choice.

Maybe Martinez is on the cusp of something great, but he has to show he's on the right path to justify getting longer. To me, he went off road about 12 months ago and is no longer even on the right page of the atlas.

 

[edge]

I hear you. But maybe we should've sacked Kendall (which the vast majority wanted, just like now) and have no history to speak of since 1970.

Kendal didn't take over a team half as good as bobby did, he bought a load in just to steady us then rebuilt from the ground up, get what your saying about sacking him at the time, but this joker isn't in the same position or class, hope I am proved badly wrong by the way.

 

[TheFinnFan]

Robertos job is to manage this squad NOW.
If he cant do that he can go.
Put the pressure on...Players and fans.

Baines comments mean that the problem isnt new one. Bad results are probs because tittish players and poor team management combined.
Im pro-Martinez but I demand results NOW or I wont be crying after him.
The idea of a new manager new players and new ideas have started to feel intreaging.

 

[Dutch Toffee]

Imo we really can't afford to give Martinez more time. Certainly not beyond this season anyway. This and last season of underachieving is going to cost us dearly come summer, I'm afraid. Talk of lack of chemistry and unrest within the squad doesn't sound too comforting.

Defended Martinez for a long time and was prepared to give him the benefit of doubt after that. Over the course of the season and especially the last few weeks/months I totally lost faith in him. We do need a change of manager. The sooner the better for me.

 

[oldblue]

So where are you with all this then? Happy to keep him but if he goes so be it?

I don't see any need to change but I'm not going to panic either way. There's positive signs coming from the club in general for me in terms of what they want to do. And some evidence that they are sincere about doing it. Clearly Martinez fits into that ambition for them but they'll know there might be better options out there.
I'd rather focus on what the players need to do. I want to see a spine in the team that's grown up together playing in a way that means we can compete at a higher level. I think that's the club's ambition now and short term issues require some patience.

 

[IveGotThe]

Not just here but their are quite a lot of people clinging on to the hope that somewhere along the line there's going to be a Kevin Brock moment and everything is going to turn around but I just cant see a Hollywood Ending for Roberto, not at Everton anyway (linked with the Spain Job today)

I dont think the players come out of this unscathed, I never get the feeling they're giving 100% or is that just the tactics?

We've got a massive transfer window coming up this summer which we simply have to get right, can we trust him? His signings have on the whole been pretty good (Barry, Lukaku, Deulofeu, Funes Mori, McCarthy) with a few duds in Alcaraz, Kone.A. Bit unfair to pass any judgement on Niasse until he actually gets some proper game time.

The next 4 league games are massive for him, he needs to show in these games evidence he can turn it around but its going to need a bit more more than a Kevin Brock back pass.

 

[Ashtonian]

The team that won the cup I think was either inherited or they were considered gambles or rejects by a whole load of people.
He added a couple of great players after the cup win though.

I remember reading ratcliffes autobiography and he was pointing out pulling players out of division two and then coming in and doing important jobs for the team. Things like that make you appreciate how good a job Kendall did back then.

 

[oldblue]

Yup ignore the reality
That's pretty close to a definition of delusional

Pretty close but you are going to have to work a bit harder to people making points about what they see than to pretend they're ignoring reality

 

[flibbyflob]

I admire the fans who still have faith in him, I would love nothing more than for them to be proven right and we win the cup and have a great season next season with him in charge. I just can't see it, I want success for this club and don't care who we have as manager as long as we win things but at present I can't see it happening under Martinez sadly.

 

[kithnou]

@oldblue you mind me asking how the current Martinez fume compares to the Kendall fume I have been told was pretty severe?

 

[oldblue]

Not just here but their are quite a lot of people clinging on to the hope that somewhere along the line there's going to be a Kevin Brock moment and everything is going to turn around but I just cant see a Hollywood Ending for Roberto, not at Everton anyway (linked with the Spain Job today)

I dont think the players come out of this unscathed, I never get the feeling they're giving 100% or is that just the tactics?

We've got a massive transfer window coming up this summer which we simply have to get right, can we trust him? His signings have on the whole been pretty good (Barry, Lukaku, Deulofeu, Funes Mori, McCarthy) with a few duds in Alcaraz, Kone.A. Bit unfair to pass any judgement on Niasse until he actually gets some proper game time.

The next 4 league games are massive for him, he needs to show in these games evidence he can turn it around but its going to need a bit more more than a Kevin Brock back pass.

Fair points and I think people are hoping there's a spark. But I'd take issue with the historical idea that the Oxford game was the one turning point.
I think players did start to take responsibility for what was happening. Partly down to Reid being on the pitch. Fear of losing became a determination not to. It wasn't all non stop success from there but they took stuff in their stride

 

[GrandOldTeam]

In here please Blues;

https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/roberto-martinez-discussion-including-live-poll.83793/