Stadium Thread - ALL Kirkby/Stadium Discussion Here

[coyney]

I think moving to kirkby is the wrong move,if Bill and Bully thought it was so good why all the spin,why the pressure of stating there are no other options how can a stadium be relatively free when £78 million is required then there is the small fact that we have no say in the design or build ,we are told the traffic will cause problems yet when we wait for Bill to say here are the facts judge for yourself all we get is more spin.But in the interest of trying to be fair KEIOC have been a disgrace as well with scare mongering tactics.we are now at each others throats insults flying both ways and yet no one can doubt that all parties(fans not Bill or KEIOC)want whats best for the club we all love so personally I'm posting no more Kirkby posts as all they do is cause bad feelings as while publicly every one agrees each fans views are of equal importance the insults suggest something else

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

very amusing to read the tale of ashburton grove, i assume it was tongue in cheek when posted in relation to the kirkby proposal.

wyness has estimated additional revenue from the stadium to be approx. £10 million. after additional costs are deducted i can't see there being much left to hand to moyes to boost his transfer kitty.

wyness also said that the prime reason for moving was to boost the transfer funds available for moyes. if so it would hardly appear to be worth the inherent risks for so little anticipated return.

 

[MaccaBill]

Its 3 f*****g miles away! (or maybe 4.... )

Accessibility will mean the majority of fans will get to Kirkby stadium quicker than they would have done for Goodison.

I have walked to Goodison from Kirkby, its a 10 minute drive ffs.

If you're the Danny I think you are, perhaps you think you'll be fine as Arriva'll sort you out - your own personal bus perhaps? Anyway, it's just over 4 miles - check the mileometer on your bus next time that you make the trip (or use AA route planner, but be careful which road you use to approach Kirkby).

But enough pedantry (!) - claiming that accessibility at Kirkby will be better than at GP is risible. If you've walked the route then you'll be able to confirm it's about an hour but seems like 10 minutes if drunk, and seems more like three hours if sober. And the poor prospects of getting there by any of the means detailed in the TA, never mind walking, is a primary factor for many, along with the piss-poor rate of return for the risks involved, not the fact that it's Kirkby per se.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

If you're the Danny I think you are, perhaps you think you'll be fine as Arriva'll sort you out - your own personal bus perhaps? Anyway, it's just over 4 miles - check the mileometer on your bus next time that you make the trip (or use AA route planner, but be careful which road you use to approach Kirkby).

Am not. The internets a big place and theres quite a few Dannys about. And I haven't got a clue what you are on about?

Around 4 miles via roads yes. (And I did quote 4 in my post). But in a straight line as in Goodison to the proposed site, its obviously less than 4.

But enough pedantry (!) - claiming that accessibility at Kirkby will be better than at GP is risible.

Of course accessibility will be far greater at Kirkby that it is at Goodison. Theres no debate with that.

If you've walked the route then you'll be able to confirm it's about an hour but seems like 10 minutes if drunk,

I said a 10 minute drive.

Have a bit of optimism lads ffs. Believe it or not, there are a lot of positives to the Kirkby situation.

 

[modfather]

Can you name them please ?

I for one find it very hard to find a plus without there being a negative straight after it.

 

[Dylan]

Those who oppose this will easily come up with a negative for any positive.

Some of you guys need to get out and release some tension.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

This notion of it creating just £10 million is just a cautious estimate I should think. Think about it.

If you ignore the executive boxes and just say 10,000 extra seats then that alone would bring in around £6 million a season just for those without any pies and beers on top. If you assume that because the new stadium won't be a [Poor language removed] hole with restricted views and decaying toilets you might find average ticket prices rise to reflect the better conditions. That would add a good few million to things.

Then you have the exec boxes, which considering they go for a few thousand per game will bring in a hefty sum. Will sponsorship of the new ground go up or down? I'd be amazed if it went down and it will quite probably go up. Retailing/catering concessions, better or worse than at Goodison? Again, surely that's some extra revenue both from retailers and supporters.

You see where we're going here? In business it's quite common to use scenarios when planning and I dare say Wyness is giving you lot the worst case scenario because you're such a bunch of moaning minnies

 

[gordonjblair]

Of course accessibility will be far greater at Kirkby that it is at Goodison. Theres no debate with that.

yes there is, is one of the more salient arguments against the move. You have read the Transport Assessment? Put it this way, when I do go to Kirkby, I won't be taking my young daughter to be crush loaded onto a train after a wait of up to an hour.

This notion of it creating just £10 million is just a cautious estimate I should think. Think about it.

If you ignore the executive boxes and just say 10,000 extra seats then that alone would bring in around £6 million a season just for those without any pies and beers on top. If you assume that because the new stadium won't be a [Poor language removed] hole with restricted views and decaying toilets you might find average ticket prices rise to reflect the better conditions. That would add a good few million to things.

Then you have the exec boxes, which considering they go for a few thousand per game will bring in a hefty sum. Will sponsorship of the new ground go up or down? I'd be amazed if it went down and it will quite probably go up. Retailing/catering concessions, better or worse than at Goodison? Again, surely that's some extra revenue both from retailers and supporters.

You see where we're going here? In business it's quite common to use scenarios when planning and I dare say Wyness is giving you lot the worst case scenario because you're such a bunch of moaning minnies

How is a 'world class stadium practically free' and 'the most accessible Stadium in the country (providing you don't actually want to get out of your car and go to a game)' a worst case scenario? I'm pretty certain Big Keith has never given us anything but the Rosiestb)

Also, you may be able to hike ticket prices for the Emirates, but we may find it a little more difficult because a. although it'll be better than the old lady currently is, Kirkby is no Emirates, and b. our demographic is different, we can only squeeze so much cash out of our fanbase. The last thing we want is people having to pick and choose the games they go to because the ticket prices have rocketed. We don't have the bus loads of Norwegians and Surrey stockbrokers to ship in to snap up these premium tickets a la ManUre.

As for the enbolded portion, does that mean, if we redid the Park end with a second Tier, decent Corporate facilities and put, oh I don't know, the 1878 Hotel and Conference Centre on the back of it (overlooking the birthplace of football in the City, maybe with a Museum on the Ground Floor with room for the France Collection), it would pay for itself in about 5 years, and fund the work on the street and Bullens in a further 10?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Seems to be a chicken and egg scenario. You say we don't have the fans to support a price rise but without them we'll never grow because we have to grow our customer base. Even if a sugar daddy buys us he'll want to increase revenue to pay back his investment.

 

[gordonjblair]

Seems to be a chicken and egg scenario. You say we don't have the fans to support a price rise but without them we'll never grow because we have to grow our customer base. Even if a sugar daddy buys us he'll want to increase revenue to pay back his investment.

Bruce,

It's not a lack of fans, it's the demographic. We're far better suited to raising the gate by keeping the ticket prices low than pricing the main body of our fans out of attending every game.

 

[Blue Lou]

It appears that Tesco have just purchased Kirkby's shopping centre:

Development Securities has sold its property holdings in Kirkby to Tesco as it withdraws from the battle to regenerate the town centre.

By Deirdre Hipwell

In a stock exchange announcement today it said it had sold the town centre retail asset, which it bought in April last year for £65m, ‘at a value which equates to book value and the original cost incurred by Development Securities’.
The property company’s plans for the town centre have caused controversy as they were pitted against Tesco's £400m rival scheme which includes a new stadium for Everton Football Club. Knowsley Council has backed the Tesco scheme.

DevSecs' Departure
The sale marks a departure from DevSecs previously stated plans of submitting a planning application for the scheme later this year.
In its results at the beginning of the month DevSecs said it was in talks with Tesco regarding the supermarket giant’s application.
It said: ‘If we are unable to reach a mutually compatible resolution, we plan to submit our own revised master plan and planning application later this year.'

DevSecs £200m proposals comprised retail space, a civic quarter, an upgraded public realm. It has also signed an exclusivity agreement with Asda to anchor the redevelopment.

Debt reduction
However, it is thought that DevSecs has decided to sell to avoid a protracted battle wtih Tesco while the proceeds from the sale will reduce its net debt of £70m.
Michael Marx, chief executive of Development Securities, said: 'We regret our departure from Kirkby but this is the right decision for our business.'

Tesco's 'Destination Kirkby' plans
Tesco's corporate affairs manager Michael Kissman, said: 'This deal ensures that the whole of Kirkby town centre can be included in the exciting regeneration plans of the 'Destination Kirkby' project. Our plans have always been about adding to the town centre, rather than replacing it, and this deals proves that point.
'A key priority will now be to meet the range of tenants on this site. We want to work with local traders to ensure this site benefits from the wider investment for new shops and an Everton stadium currently being considered by Knowsley Metropolitan Borough Council.'

Kirkby is officially a Tesco town now :blink:

 

[modfather]

Still all boils down to can Everton afford it. One raise in price and we are going nowhere.

 

[gordonjblair]

Still all boils down to can Everton afford it. One raise in price and we are going nowhere.

Not neccessarily, this could be a handy guard against the anticipated shortfall in cross subsidy. As things stood, the cross subsidy was looking a bit sick for the square footage likely to be approved and in the current economic climate. By essentially broadening the development, perhaps Tesco are given us a chance to realise that £52M figure (assuming that the £65M outlay wasn't purely to buy out the stalking horse and ease the Planning Process - no Plan B... where have we heard that before?).

Will be interesting to see if the Club seize on this to convince us that the sums do indeed add up, as this would be a fair indicator as to whether the Stadium itself becomes a benefactor.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Bruce,

It's not a lack of fans, it's the demographic. We're far better suited to raising the gate by keeping the ticket prices low than pricing the main body of our fans out of attending every game.

Sure I agree. Man Utd make more money from overseas fans than they do from UK ones. This is an area where we lack severely. It does chime with my belief that we don't treat the club as a business as much as we need to.

To raise money you can do one of the following:

1) Get more money from match days through either higher gates or higher income from existing gates, be that through higher ticket prices or increased spend on support activities.

2) Get more money from non-match going fans. This clearly allows the club to stretch out from the demographic constraints you mention plus of course giving the club those Norweigans to come in and help support extra spend on match days.

3) Rely on collective selling of the Premier League for broadcasting rights etc. I suspect we have over relied on this in recent years.

4) Expect the team to do the business and get extra prize money. Always valuable but not the long term answer. A case of the tail wagging the dog.

5) Improve corporate relations. Advertising, sponsorship etc. Our Chang deal suggests we don't get the biggest bang for our buck in that department. A new stadium would offer more opportunities for advertising and commercial partnerships.

 

[bly]

I can only see the suggestion of increased revenue being the positive to moving grounds, as The Old Lady doesn't generate enough revenue.

Well please humour me whilst I try to point out a few of the realities of this the way i see it.

football, is fashionable and has no care for tradition. Everton FC are not fashionable, they are traditional. The revenue generated by moving stadiums means nothing to non fashionable clubs.

We will not attract non match-day revenue out in Kirkby, we will not attract 'match going business men' whose businesses will feel a need that now we are in Kirkby, they will buy a box. They will if they are genuine, already be members of the various lounges around Goodison, so what will be 'new'?

By creating a few private boxes we can apparently attract more money. Who is going to buy these boxes?

Just have a look at the number of 'mid-level football stadiums' currently playing in the Championship.

The same people who support us now, will support us anywhere. Unfortunately a lot of fans, me included, will not watch us in Kirkby. I will not renew my ST when we move.

It is false economy of the highest order, and the death-nell of our great traditional club.