Roberto Martinez discussion

[Abertonian]

Roberto will go at some stage. It is a given. It happens to all average Managers when a rich owner takes over at a big Club.
Sad but true.
Why waste another season until we get there anyway and not do it fast this Summer?

I totally agree, nice guy, nice philosophy about football but tactically naive at times and it's showing. Who to get in is a hard one but that shouldn't be a reason to keep an under performing manager. Moyes net spend was +£8M bobbys almost at +£50M In 3 years, can't say he's not had a decent chance to prove his worth.

 

[detroiturk15]

Yes.
Everton will be a huge pull with new investment coming in.

I just don't know if I 100% agree. Money's great, but Mourinho has managed in CL finals, has won titles. I don't think the club will be ambitious enough for him if you ask me today. Now if the 100 million pounds is guaranteed to the next manager and no one leaves then that's definitely a different proposition.

 

[Zatara]

I would have been happy to stick with him and his "vision" for another year 8 days ago mate. We had no option.

But as I said, it appears things have changed for Everton 7 days ago.

The writing is on the wall anyway for him, as it has been with practically all average Managers, when a billionaire seeking success arrives at a club.

Why prolong the inevitable? Get rid in the Summer and let's move to our next stage as a club.

Mind you, I don't know what say Bill still has, so I fully expect Roberto to be here at least another season. And it will be another season wasted as he will go anyways soon after...and possibly a huge amount of Mr Moshiri's money spent that the big Manager could have spent this year.

Nonsense. Total nonsense.

Martinez has proven that with money he can really do damage in the transfer market. I cant think of one available manager who has a better track record.

He wants to play a certain style and transform the club from top to bottom. This has been successful from the youth up to the firsr team as shown by the young players coming through now.

As for the first team its always the same daft arguments:

Spent money
Did well in 1st season so squad must be good
Did well in 1st season then all downhill
etc etc

He has had to change our entire style of play and took over with a VERY POOR OLD SQUAD.

You look at some of the squad players he was left with, either they had one or two seasons left or were very average at best!!! Then the first eleven had less than a handful of good players.

Look at the team now, barring Jags and Coleman they are all new players. When the dross left by moyes leaves in the summer it will be an entirely new squad.

So not only has he changed the style of play but hes totally reshaped the squad with far better players who are still very young and need to be given time to develop. This is so very clear when you see Lukaku and Barkley last season and the difference this season -- look at Besic who has improved enormously...even Stones is going through a bad patch now and next season will push on again.

Hes had 2.5 years to do all of this and now needs to have money and time in the summer ro finish off his squad rebuilding...


Mourinho i actually like but he leaves every club in a total mess. Also he is short term and wants instant success, we need a manager to build our club up from the grouns like Martinez is doing.

Pelligrini, look at his centre back signings for starters + we would have beaten him in the league cup but for the ref....he also put out a disgraceful fa cup side.

People saying mark hughes probably arent old enough to know he used to play for us. Horrible man.


I say Martinez get fhe summer to build his squad and after his comments i believe Moshiri hs already guaranteed him his job. That shows hes a good businessman with an astute brain in his head looking for a long term vision.

Alot of people will look very silly next season.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

Still more mentions of 'Baffling' substitutions costing us the match. UTTER TRIPE.

As I said earlier.

We go a man down, he takes off Stones and puts Besic on to revert to a back 4 and take control of the midfield. 30 mins later we are 2-0 up and cruising.
15 mins to go Lennon is tiring badly (great performance and making up for being a man down). Bobby takes him off and replaces him with another winger who desperately needs some game time to integrate. It should keep the pressure on them going forward and maintain the 2-0 status quo. West Ham push up and score two.
Bobby sees that Rom is tired and isn't getting the ball any more so replaces him with Barry to fill out the midfield and hold onto the draw, Naisse goes up top.
Payet scores under a minute later.

You can see the logic in what he did (if you can't put a new player on with 15mins to go whilst 2-0 up at home when can you?). If we'd have put Barry on for Lennon then it would have been telling West Ham that we weren't going to bother trying to get out of our half anymore, yes you could argue in hindsight that his decisions were wrong, but you could also argue that the substitutions didn't actually change anything. Going down to 10 men killed us today. It took away all our options as we tired in the second half.

Bobby didn't make the tired mistakes, what more could he have done differently at the time?

 

[Zatara]

Yes zatman, cos its true.

Doesnt tell the whole story really though does it.

I know you like a good story so am surprised by your opinion.

 

[Zatara]

I just don't know if I 100% agree. Money's great, but Mourinho has managed in CL finals, has won titles. I don't think the club will be ambitious enough for him if you ask me today. Now if the 100 million pounds is guaranteed to the next manager and no one leaves then that's definitely a different proposition.

I disagree wth this. Bringing in Mourinho for me doesnt show ambition, it smacks of a desire for short term success.

Now, if Mourinho agreed to only sign u23 players and must bring through the youth then thats a different story but otherwise 3 years down the track we would be a total mess.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

I disagree wth this. Bringing in Mourinho for me doesnt show ambition, it smacks of a desire for short term success.

Now, if Mourinho agreed to only sign u23 players and must bring through the youth then thats a different story but otherwise 3 years down the track we would be a total mess.

He won't which is why Man Utd don't want him.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Still more mentions of 'Baffling' substitutions costing us the match. UTTER TRIPE.

As I said earlier.

We go a man down, he takes off Stones and puts Besic on to revert to a back 4 and take control of the midfield. 30 mins later we are 2-0 up and cruising.
15 mins to go Lennon is tiring badly (great performance and making up for being a man down). Bobby takes him off and replaces him with another winger who desperately needs some game time to integrate. It should keep the pressure on them going forward and maintain the 2-0 status quo. West Ham push up and score two.
Bobby sees that Rom is tired and isn't getting the ball any more so replaces him with Barry to fill out the midfield and hold onto the draw, Naisse goes up top.
Payet scores under a minute later.

You can see the logic in what he did (if you can't put a new player on with 15mins to go whilst 2-0 up at home when can you?). If we'd have put Barry on for Lennon then it would have been telling West Ham that we weren't going to bother trying to get out of our half anymore, yes you could argue in hindsight that his decisions were wrong, but you could also argue that the substitutions didn't actually change anything. Going down to 10 men killed us today. It took away all our options as we tired in the second half.

Bobby didn't make the tired mistakes, what more could he have done differently at the time?

It was a horrendous substitution and I'm afraid that's how most will see it. If Lennon was tired then I dunno what to say about niasse. A knackered lennon was a million times better than him. To send on someone so off the pace and frankly out of shape physically was scandalous. Especially with Gareth Barry waiting to come on.

 

[kithnou]

Martinez has proven that with money he can really do damage in the transfer market. I cant think of one available manager who has a better track record.

Mate, we don't have 40 points yet and it's March. Please define "done great". Bringing in great players like Lukaku and Deulofeu yes is great. But he still has no clue how to win games, even with them.

I say Martinez get fhe summer to build his squad and after his comments i believe Moshiri hs already guaranteed him his job. That shows hes a good businessman with an astute brain in his head looking for a long term vision.

I fully expect this to happen as well.

Alot of people will look very silly next season.

I hope you are right and am happy to look silly if it means our club has had a great season.
History is against Roberto though I am afraid.

 

[Zatara]

Still more mentions of 'Baffling' substitutions costing us the match. UTTER TRIPE.

As I said earlier.

We go a man down, he takes off Stones and puts Besic on to revert to a back 4 and take control of the midfield. 30 mins later we are 2-0 up and cruising.
15 mins to go Lennon is tiring badly (great performance and making up for being a man down). Bobby takes him off and replaces him with another winger who desperately needs some game time to integrate. It should keep the pressure on them going forward and maintain the 2-0 status quo. West Ham push up and score two.
Bobby sees that Rom is tired and isn't getting the ball any more so replaces him with Barry to fill out the midfield and hold onto the draw, Naisse goes up top.
Payet scores under a minute later.

You can see the logic in what he did (if you can't put a new player on with 15mins to go whilst 2-0 up at home when can you?). If we'd have put Barry on for Lennon then it would have been telling West Ham that we weren't going to bother trying to get out of our half anymore, yes you could argue in hindsight that his decisions were wrong, but you could also argue that the substitutions didn't actually change anything. Going down to 10 men killed us today. It took away all our options as we tired in the second half.

Bobby didn't make the tired mistakes, what more could he have done differently at the time?

Exactly this.

Mirallas = Red card
Niasse = No effort
Mori -- Should have heades away goals
Coleman = Out of position
Jagielka = No leadership

I mean theae are international players yet people are blaming a lack of coaching on these things. How can they be fine for the past few weeks and also in international matches then with us today a disaster??

Its not the coaching...its the players whove made errors which they shouldnt do havent been doing and wouldnt be doing if perhaps they had a vocal leader or werent shattered.

As for mirallas....

 

[toffee matt]

"A lot of people will look of people will look silly next season "

Head the same kind of thing this time last year

. A year on nothing has changed for the better on the field.

The only people looking silly are the people predicting things from a manager that he isn't capable of doing.

Time to go Bobby

 

[Tree13]

Do you actually believe this?

It's not a matter of "belief". It's clearly evident.

 

[Zatara]

He won't which is why Man Utd don't want him.

Putting Martinez himself to one side.

You dont go from having Moyes as manager for over a decade to being the English Barcelona overnight.

This takes time to change the entire club top to bottom whilst keeping everyone happy at the same time. Its clearly a gradual process and requires patience, money and intelligence.

Where we are now has taken money but still needs probably £100mil more in the squad. Its taken 2.5 years so far and likely needs 1 more year for the squad to be developed together (ages/injuries/summer signings) and the old guard to be moved on this summer.

For the young lads they need another season or two but we can see the potential coming through and its very strong indeed. Likewise the onsite living quarters mentioned 2.5 years ago are now being built in year 3.

This and more requires a positive dynamic forward thinking manager in it for the long term. Someone who is very good signing and developing young players and ok to sacrifice short term results fr long term gain -- which has been the case with us.

 

[McBain]

Putting Martinez himself to one side.

You dont go from having Moyes as manager for over a decade to being the English Barcelona overnight.

This takes time to change the entire club top to bottom whilst keeping everyone happy at the same time. Its clearly a gradual process and requires patience, money and intelligence.

Where we are now has taken money but still needs probably £100mil more in the squad. Its taken 2.5 years so far and likely needs 1 more year for the squad to be developed together (ages/injuries/summer signings) and the old guard to be moved on this summer.

For the young lads they need another season or two but we can see the potential coming through and its very strong indeed. Likewise the onsite living quarters mentioned 2.5 years ago are now being built in year 3.

This and more requires a positive dynamic forward thinking manager in it for the long term. Someone who is very good signing and developing young players and ok to sacrifice short term results fr long term gain -- which has been the case with us.

 

[Zatara]

Mate, we don't have 40 points yet and it's March. Please define "done great". Bringing in great players like Lukaku and Deulofeu yes is great. But he still has no clue how to win games, even with them.



I fully expect this to happen as well.



I hope you are right and am happy to look silly if it means our club has had a great season.
History is against Roberto though I am afraid.

Hes not building a short term fixed upper side with the aim of scraping into 6th every season is he?

Hes signing players with a long term focus.

You only need to look at Ross and Rom last season and compare to this season. Short term loss for long term gain...same for stones this season.

Besic another case in point...

He could have used his transfer budgets to sign 30 year old players and push for top 4-6 last two seasons....

Just like Mourinho...

Then now we would be looking at replacing an entire squad this summer.