Europa League possibility (Humour me here lads)

[pablo_p]

I'm not disagreeing with the logic which leads to the conclusion that playing more games with the same amount of players might impact league performance.

The fact is though, the opposite is true.

2005/06 - 50 points - Knocked out of Europe early
2006/07 - 58 points - No Europe
2007/08 - 65 points - 10 Euro games
2008/09 - 63 points - 2 Euro games
2009/10 - 61 points - 8 Euro games
2010/11 - 54 points - No Europe
2011/12 - 56 points - No Europe

Nor am I disagreeing with the stats you've produced.

But look at the squad size, the players we had available, not to mention the age of the players - There are a few still playing for us now that were playing in the 05/06 season. Granted, it's Neville, Osman, Hibbert and Anichebe - but the point still stands.

If rumours are to be believed, then we're looking to offload Heitinga. Fellaini is gonna be elsewhere. And we're deffo going to lose Hitzelsperger. There's the possibility of losing Mucha. And it continues.

At least in the past we've had the likes of Baxter, Vic, Wallace etc to draw on. Granted, our academy looks a lot better these days, and we'll never know until we're in Europe again. But I think with the players outgoing and the inevitable lack of investment, our squad would struggle in the Europa League.

 

[Brennan]

Nor am I disagreeing with the stats you've produced.

But look at the squad size, the players we had available, not to mention the age of the players - There are a few still playing for us now that were playing in the 05/06 season. Granted, it's Neville, Osman, Hibbert and Anichebe - but the point still stands.

If rumours are to be believed, then we're looking to offload Heitinga. Fellaini is gonna be elsewhere. And we're deffo going to lose Hitzelsperger. There's the possibility of losing Mucha. And it continues.

At least in the past we've had the likes of Baxter, Vic, Wallace etc to draw on. Granted, our academy looks a lot better these days, and we'll never know until we're in Europe again. But I think with the players outgoing and the inevitable lack of investment, our squad would struggle in the Europa League.

I reckon we will spend money in the summer mate.

I would be amazed if we didn't have a net spend.

 

[pablo_p]

I reckon we will spend money in the summer mate.

I would be amazed if we didn't have a net spend.

The current crop in charge worry me mate. I'd love to have your optimism, but sadly I do not. I reckon they'll blast loads of it on debts, and Moyes (or whoever) will get the scraps and anything from player sales. We'll bring one or two in, but the squad will still be at a deficit.

The thing that scares me the most about Moyes leaving, is his replacement wouldn't get half the budget of what he would.

 

[MickM86]

At the start of the season every person on here would've been happy to finish 5th or win a trophy giving us Europa league next season.

We all thought at the start of the season champions league is very hard and we probably won't do it, but as the season progressed and we were in the top 4 everybody piped up (myself included) prioritised for the CL. Remember our initial aim and to me that was Europa league

 

[Brennan]

At the start of the season every person on here would've been happy to finish 5th or win a trophy giving us Europa league next season.

We all thought at the start of the season champions league is very hard and we probably won't do it, but as the season progressed and we were in the top 4 everybody piped up (myself included) prioritised for the CL. Remember our initial aim and to me that was Europa league

Important to note that we as a fan base wilfully ignored the fact that our second half of the season fixtures were noticeably more difficult than our first half of the season.

 

[billycopper]

I reckon we will spend money in the summer mate.

I would be amazed if we didn't have a net spend.

If we made Europe we'd quite possibly retain players that we wouldn't otherwise have done because we'd need to keep squad numbers up without bringing in too many new players at once. A clean slate gives us the chance to clear out Mucha, Heitinga, Neville, Gueye, Hitzlsperger and possibly one or two others without either leaving ourselves short or panic-buying whatever replacements we're able to bring in. With some sensible dealing over the summer I don't see why we couldn't come back even stronger next year.

 

[billycopper]

Important to note that we as a fan base wilfully ignored the fact that our second half of the season fixtures were noticeably more difficult than our first half of the season.

But then we perform better against top sides than also-rans. Without Bale we'd have undoubtedly finished above Spurs. Will Chelsea be the same once the old guard is phased out and how long can they keep getting away with chopping and changing managers? And Arsenal have ground out results without being spectacular.

 

[pablo_p]

If we made Europe we'd quite possibly retain players that we wouldn't otherwise have done because we'd need to keep squad numbers up without bringing in too many new players at once. A clean slate gives us the chance to clear out Mucha, Heitinga, Neville, Gueye, Hitzlsperger and possibly one or two others without either leaving ourselves short or panic-buying whatever replacements we're able to bring in. With some sensible dealing over the summer I don't see why we couldn't come back even stronger next year.

Would we though? The reason that Felli 'wants' to leave, and the reason why Pienaar and Arteta left was for CL football, wasn't it?

Whilst the Europa League is decent, the CL is a different beast altogether.

 

[Brennan]

But then we perform better against top sides than also-rans. Without Bale we'd have undoubtedly finished above Spurs. Will Chelsea be the same once the old guard is phased out and how long can they keep getting away with chopping and changing managers? And Arsenal have ground out results without being spectacular.

We've had to play at Old Trafford, The Emirates, White Hart Lane and are going to play at Anfield and Stamford Bridge, all after Christmas. Our record isn't great at any of those places, and at most is very poor.

 

[billycopper]

Would we though? The reason that Felli 'wants' to leave, and the reason why Pienaar and Arteta left was for CL football, wasn't it?

Whilst the Europa League is decent, the CL is a different beast altogether.

I meant the Europa League specifically. If we let those 5 leave we'd need to bring in 7 or 8 to replace them and so that we could cope with the extra fixtures. It's never a good idea to recruit so many new faces at once, as QPR have demonstrated, so we'd have possibly kept a few of the fringe players on as back up.

 

[toffeejack]

can't believe people would rather no europe than europa. Why do you all crave champions league so much, with the seeding structure it's quite possible we would draw another villareal and not make it again. Remember how that affected us last time, a whole season's good effort down the pan in 1 tie.

Even if we did get through, we probably wouldn't get out of the group stages. We'd probably go out and spend beyond our means (suppose this almost certainly won't happen) just to compete. Whereas in europa are team is 1)good enough to have a really good run i.e. semi finals (which would get us probably more recognition), would create a better vibe around the place and 2) be attainable with our current squad + about 3 players? 3) we could also get qualifying from the group stages done quickly and then play the ressies for 1 or 2 games (something which would never happen in the champions league).

our squad is small yes, but it's not as small as some of you think, it's just we have a manager incompetent of rotating it properly. we wouldn't even have to be at full strength for the earlier stages of europa. continual development is much better than taking the giant leap from no europe for a few years straight to europe's elite competition.

 

[Ravensblue]

I meant the Europa League specifically. If we let those 5 leave we'd need to bring in 7 or 8 to replace them and so that we could cope with the extra fixtures. It's never a good idea to recruit so many new faces at once, as QPR have demonstrated, so we'd have possibly kept a few of the fringe players on as back up.

You say qpr, I say Chelsea 04/05 season. It's all down to how good your manager is at getting your team to gel really.

 

[Brennan]

can't believe people would rather no europe than europa. Why do you all crave champions league so much, with the seeding structure it's quite possible we would draw another villareal and not make it again. Remember how that affected us last time, a whole season's good effort down the pan in 1 tie.

Even if we did get through, we probably wouldn't get out of the group stages. We'd probably go out and spend beyond our means (suppose this almost certainly won't happen) just to compete. Whereas in europa are team is 1)good enough to have a really good run i.e. semi finals (which would get us probably more recognition), would create a better vibe around the place and 2) be attainable with our current squad + about 3 players? 3) we could also get qualifying from the group stages done quickly and then play the ressies for 1 or 2 games (something which would never happen in the champions league).

our squad is small yes, but it's not as small as some of you think, it's just we have a manager incompetent of rotating it properly. we wouldn't even have to be at full strength for the earlier stages of europa. continual development is much better than taking the giant leap from no europe for a few years straight to europe's elite competition.

Spot on. We haven't won a trophy in nearly two decades and people are poo pooing the idea of the Europa because it 'may' hurt our league performance, despite the fact that we have no hope in the CL anyway.

 

[billycopper]

can't believe people would rather no europe than europa. Why do you all crave champions league so much, with the seeding structure it's quite possible we would draw another villareal and not make it again. Remember how that affected us last time, a whole season's good effort down the pan in 1 tie.

Even if we did get through, we probably wouldn't get out of the group stages. We'd probably go out and spend beyond our means (suppose this almost certainly won't happen) just to compete. Whereas in europa are team is 1)good enough to have a really good run i.e. semi finals (which would get us probably more recognition), would create a better vibe around the place and 2) be attainable with our current squad + about 3 players? 3) we could also get qualifying from the group stages done quickly and then play the ressies for 1 or 2 games (something which would never happen in the champions league).

our squad is small yes, but it's not as small as some of you think, it's just we have a manager incompetent of rotating it properly. we wouldn't even have to be at full strength for the earlier stages of europa. continual development is much better than taking the giant leap from no europe for a few years straight to europe's elite competition.

I'm sure Moyes has alluding to the group stages of the CL being worth far more than even winning the Europa League. We were stretched by having to rotate for the Carling Cup and Fellaini complained of tiredness at Sunderland despite having had a month off. If we could beef up the squad in the summer, then qualify for the Europa League the following season we'd only need to add a few new faces before the campaign started. As it stands, we've used fewer players than anyone else in the league and I think it would be too much to ask of them.

 

[billycopper]

Spot on. We haven't won a trophy in nearly two decades and people are poo pooing the idea of the Europa because it 'may' hurt our league performance, despite the fact that we have no hope in the CL anyway.

If Newcastle go down a large part of that will be because of them being hurt by playing Europa League football. Stoke struggled with it the season before too.