Youth Shut Up! No, YOUTH Shut Up!

[njligernj]

Interesting article. I tend to think people overestimate the youth aspect. That doesn't mean it isn't important but just that it's unlikely to suddenly churn out Messi after Messi.

I am more into it now that we have an elite academy with a wider catchment -- should give us some more opportunities.

I believe Villa's youth team has been one of the best over the last few years in terms of creating "professional footballers" but it's just (with a few exceptions) a stream of decidedly average players so they never really improve their first team.

I still would rather send them out on loan to get experience and then wait for them to get into the team on pure merit ... not "let's hope he gets better if we play him a lot."

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Maybe. I'm reminded of the comment in that FT piece though, where the analyst guy was talking about what the media write. He basically said that they'll make up stuff about psychology and mind games etc. because they have no idea about the data that most decisions are actually based upon.

I suspect the same is true for most of us.

Data cannot tell you everything though

Football is a visceral game and sometimes you have to disregard the form sheet and take a gamble

Sunderland away is a perfect example of that. Moyes "played it safe" and went with Pienaar and Osman when it would have been more prudent to start Barkley and cart Pienaar off at half time for Oviedo

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Data cannot tell you everything though

Football is a visceral game and sometimes you have to disregard the form sheet and take a gamble

Sunderland away is a perfect example of that. Moyes "played it safe" and went with Pienaar and Osman when it would have been more prudent to start Barkley and cart Pienaar off at half time for Oviedo

Oh for sure, and it's all part of being a fan isn't it to air our views and chew the fat over what goes on at the club

I'm confident that the manager (keep having to stop myself writing Moyes) will have a better idea than me who to pick on any given weekend though. Unless the manager was Mark Hughes or someone.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Oh for sure, and it's all part of being a fan isn't it to air our views and chew the fat over what goes on at the club

I'm confident that the manager (keep having to stop myself writing Moyes) will have a better idea than me who to pick on any given weekend though. Unless the manager was Mark Hughes or someone.

I worry that sometimes managers may have an agenda

You're correct though you never know

I'm astonished to think that Moyes thought it wasn't a good idea to play Barkley after that Arsenal game. Astonished isn't even the word

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Interesting article. I tend to think people overestimate the youth aspect. That doesn't mean it isn't important but just that it's unlikely to suddenly churn out Messi after Messi.

I am more into it now that we have an elite academy with a wider catchment -- should give us some more opportunities.

I believe Villa's youth team has been one of the best over the last few years in terms of creating "professional footballers" but it's just (with a few exceptions) a stream of decidedly average players so they never really improve their first team.

I still would rather send them out on loan to get experience and then wait for them to get into the team on pure merit ... not "let's hope he gets better if we play him a lot."

I would have you pegged as being category three leaning slightly to two

Correct me if you think I'm wrong though

 

[Julian Carax]

Everton do seem to be pushing Barkley a bit more now, he was the first to parade the new badge and his face seems to be part of the promotion of Everton evolving.

I think most fans would rather a young lad was brought through than a journeyman 30 year old. But if the players aren't good enough they aren't good enough and if they can't prove it in training then there's not much hope of them getting on the pitch.

 

[carlos21]

Everton do seem to be pushing Barkley a bit more now, he was the first to parade the new badge and his face seems to be part of the promotion of Everton evolving.

I think most fans would rather a young lad was brought through than a journeyman 30 year old. But if the players aren't good enough they aren't good enough and if they can't prove it in training then there's not much hope of them getting on the pitch.

very good point there.

 

[moyeslovechild]

my prob is when completely average players get brought i n because managers are too scared of givin youth a chance....

you just need to look at utd to see that they give some youth players who arent super talented a lot of game time and it either results in a dedicated squad member or a player bein moved on for a 7 figure fee

how often do utd bring in squad players? rarely ever, they bring in young prospects for the first team squad (to supplement their academy talent) or the real deal (a model chelsea look to be following)

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Everton do seem to be pushing Barkley a bit more now, he was the first to parade the new badge and his face seems to be part of the promotion of Everton evolving.

I think most fans would rather a young lad was brought through than a journeyman 30 year old. But if the players aren't good enough they aren't good enough and if they can't prove it in training then there's not much hope of them getting on the pitch.

I'm hopeful Martinez will give the youngsters a fair shake

Doesn't bode well for Duffy though that he went straight for Alcaraz

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I worry that sometimes managers may have an agenda

You're correct though you never know

I'm astonished to think that Moyes thought it wasn't a good idea to play Barkley after that Arsenal game. Astonished isn't even the word

Folks will always have favourites, you know? Bit like the 'clique' on here. We all have people we prefer to others. I suppose the nice thing about falling back on data is that it takes that clouded judgement out of the equation.

Don't have any stats to back it up or anything, but I wonder about the average age of players in the PL now. There was a thing recently looking at male tennis players, and how few under 20's are in the top 50/100 of the world rankings compared to past eras. The theory was that with the game more physical now, it took longer for kids to mature enough to be able to compete.

Not sure if that's the case in football or not. You have outliers of course like Messi because of his skill, or Rooney because of his mature physique, but there don't appear to be many kids coming through in the PL and doing it regularly.

Just a punt to put out there here, but we've seen guys like Rodwell and Vaughan come on the scene at a young age and then struggle with injuries. Maybe the game is such that kids aren't up to it physically until they're a bit older?

 

[Julian Carax]

England U20's haven't won a competitive game in 16 matches.

With teams being set up in a 4231 formation and relying on fitness and strength over skill, is it harder for youth players to make the break at the moment because they physically aren't up to it?

(I'm completely ignoring Spain here and devaluing what was already a pretty limp-wristed theory.)

 

[njligernj]

I would have you pegged as being category three leaning slightly to two Correct me if you think I'm wrong though

That's fairly accurate. That said if I were in the UK I'd go to youth games (not like every week like but maybe once every month or two) and try to keep up on prospects. I'm interested in it and I value its potential ... I just don't think we're likely to get that much from it any time soon.

I think it's very important and if it were my call I'd pour a lot of resources into the academy. BUT ... I would lean more to the CL team model of loaning out until a player is really ready rather than them trying to learn on the job for us.

I wouldn't have played Barkley (or any U-20 aside from a Rooney level talent) that much more than Moyes over the last few years (although I would have played him more than Moyes and I do hope he gets a good chance now with RM).

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

That's fairly accurate. That said if I were in the UK I'd go to youth games (not like every week like but maybe once every month or two) and try to keep up on prospects. I'm interested in it and I value its potential ... I just don't think we're likely to get that much from it any time soon.

I think it's very important and if it were my call I'd pour a lot of resources into the academy. BUT ... I would lean more to the CL team model of loaning out until a player is really ready rather than them trying to learn on the job for us.

I wouldn't have played Barkley (or any U-20 aside from a Rooney level talent) that much more than Moyes over the last few years (although I would have played him more than Moyes and I do hope he gets a good chance now with RM).

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time grasping that part if I'm honest

Do you think Barkley is better than the average U-20 player, and that's why you'd play him more?

 

[billybinghamsboy]

This may upset some folk but I'm not overly impressed with Barkley he doesn't appear to be that much better than any other kid.
Can't see what all the fuss is about.
Now I have been wrong on many occasions and hope for his sake I am this time but for me he's not the next anyone.

 

[Azzurri]

This may upset some folk but I'm not overly impressed with Barkley he doesn't appear to be that much better than any other kid.
Can't see what all the fuss is about.
Now I have been wrong on many occasions and hope for his sake I am this time but for me he's not the next anyone.