Would we be better off starting again?

[somuchfun]

I think we are 1/3 through of that squad overhaul process which is inevitable in every team in every 5-7 years. Mikky wasn't getting any younger, but we also have Saha, Cahill, Distin and Neville who will retire in 1-3 years. Also changing the squad might lead us to another system 4-5-1 is a defensively solid formation, but don't recognise who are we structuring this team upon currently (LB, lb?) so our formation might change when we start building a team around someone.

The wage structure at the moment makes the club profitable for the time being and we should've halved our debt if all the transfer money goes to the bank. These are positive things these. Even if we are sh'it for a while atleast we'll get the finances sorted, and then we can have another go. Everything is cyclical esp. if you dont have extrar money to fill the gaps with.

I think we're in a rather good position compared to what people here say.

 

[davek]

I think we are 1/3 through of that squad overhaul process which is inevitable in every team in every 5-7 years. Mikky wasn't getting any younger, but we also have Saha, Cahill, Distin and Neville who will retire in 1-3 years. Also changing the squad might lead us to another system 4-5-1 is a defensively solid formation, but don't recognise who are we structuring this team upon currently (LB, lb?) so our formation might change when we start building a team around someone.

The wage structure at the moment makes the club profitable for the time being and we should've halved our debt if all the transfer money goes to the bank. These are positive things these. Even if we are sh'it for a while atleast we'll get the finances sorted, and then we can have another go. Everything is cyclical esp. if you dont have extrar money to fill the gaps with.

I think we're in a rather good position compared to what people here say.

But what are we en route full circle to again? 5th or 6th? The fact of the matter is the highs weren't that high. Just retracing our steps again, doing the same thing and hoping for a repeat performance shouldn't really be our ambition...it wasn't ambitious enough in the first place. We need a complete (hate the phrase but here goes) reboot. Everton need to be a completely different organisation from top to bottom in order to become truly competitive again as a major force in this country's football life. Just doing things over and over again when they've never borne fruit isn't wise, it's a sign of madeness.

 

[BiggyRat]

But what are we en route full circle to again? 5th or 6th? The fact of the matter is the highs weren't that high. Just retracing our steps again, doing the same thing and hoping for a repeat performance shouldn't really be our ambition...it wasn't ambitious enough in the first place. We need a complete (hate the phrase but here goes) reboot. Everton need to be a completely different organisation from top to bottom in order to become truly competitive again as a major force in this country's football life. Just doing things over and over again when they've never borne fruit isn't wise, it's a sign of madeness.

Easy there Tiger. You've just described half the posters on this forum!

 

[somuchfun]

But what are we en route full circle to again? 5th or 6th? The fact of the matter is the highs weren't that high. Just retracing our steps again, doing the same thing and hoping for a repeat performance shouldn't really be our ambition...it wasn't ambitious enough in the first place. We need a complete (hate the phrase but here goes) reboot. Everton need to be a completely different organisation from top to bottom in order to become truly competitive again as a major force in this country's football life. Just doing things over and over again when they've never borne fruit isn't wise, it's a sign of madeness.

Well, in the end of the day it's a lot about luck as we are currently not established at the top.
Either to get the pieces together and get in top 4 and stay there enough to establish ourselves, or, yes, an easier route would be to get money in.

While I do understand that constant europe places (like last season, just had lesser cup finalists, which in itself was good for the game) are not the ultimate success as you are obviously refering to wanting to win the league / europe, I still feel that it's far better than instability, debt and even possible fear of relegation.

Unless we hit the mug jackpot, the best thing for us to do is to hope Moyes finds a few gems, builds a decent side out of them and we get to CL places again.. it would also be good for finding that additional investment.

It seems like teams have to be in a freefall or in a sharp rise to gain interest, and while it might seem that we are threading water, I can't see us doing any other sudden movements than a freefall, really. But currently, we are doing relatively fine.

 

[davek]

Easy there Tiger. You've just described half the posters on this forum!

Ha Ha. Post of the day that'll be.

 

[davek]

Well, in the end of the day it's a lot about luck as we are currently not established at the top.
Either to get the pieces together and get in top 4 and stay there enough to establish ourselves, or, yes, an easier route would be to get money in.

While I do understand that constant europe places (like last season, just had lesser cup finalists, which in itself was good for the game) are not the ultimate success as you are obviously refering to wanting to win the league / europe, I still feel that it's far better than instability, debt and even possible fear of relegation.

Unless we hit the mug jackpot, the best thing for us to do is to hope Moyes finds a few gems, builds a decent side out of them and we get to CL places again.. it would also be good for finding that additional investment.

It seems like teams have to be in a freefall or in a sharp rise to gain interest, and while it might seem that we are threading water, I can't see us doing any other sudden movements than a freefall, really. But currently, we are doing relatively fine.

The old order running the club got us to the point you're hoping to get back to in much better times economically. They borrowed and sold assets to fund campaigns that got us to top 5 contenders and a cup final. That option is off the table now.

As I say, we need a root and branch change to move on. All we have at the moment is the ability to rearrange the deckchairs on the Titanic.

 

[billycopper]

They're already in the team and, to be brutal, apart from Fellaini and maybe Rodwell and Barkley, aren't capable of making us a force again and/or selling on for a tidy sum to reinvest. And Drenthe is hardly a young player being brought through. We have an ageing squad. Our youngsters are almost all blooded already.

I disagree. Coleman wasn't far off being Young Player of the Season. Duffy has all the key attributes to be a very classy defender, he's tall, strong, elegant on the ball and can score goals. I think Gueye might end up being more of a finisher than a provider, but that's no bad thing. Drenthe is only about 23 and has 1 Dutch cap (oo-er) to his name, so his future is ahead of him. We haven't seen enough of Vellios to be able to judge yet.

Hopefully Baxter, Wallace, Dier, Mustafi, Hammar, Garbutt, Lundstram, Silva, McAleney, Hope and Long will all make the grade too.

I'd imagine that Moyes will end up sacrificing more players yet. Maybe Jags will end up at Arsenal? Maybe Cahill will move to either Stoke or Sunderland, as rumoured? Maybe Fellaini will go because he won't sign a new contract? Hopefully though, we've now sold the players that we were forced to sell and we can choose the timing and the price for any future departures.

 

[Number_25]

What we've got here right now is good enough for the next two seasons as we try to steady ship, after that we'll have to see. Building from scratch right now would be pretty stupid.

 

[zed]

I disagree. Coleman wasn't far off being Young Player of the Season. Duffy has all the key attributes to be a very classy defender, he's tall, strong, elegant on the ball and can score goals. I think Gueye might end up being more of a finisher than a provider, but that's no bad thing. Drenthe is only about 23 and has 1 Dutch cap (oo-er) to his name, so his future is ahead of him. We haven't seen enough of Vellios to be able to judge yet.

Hopefully Baxter, Wallace, Dier, Mustafi, Hammar, Garbutt, Lundstram, Silva, McAleney, Hope and Long will all make the grade too.

I'd imagine that Moyes will end up sacrificing more players yet. Maybe Jags will end up at Arsenal? Maybe Cahill will move to either Stoke or Sunderland, as rumoured? Maybe Fellaini will go because he won't sign a new contract? Hopefully though, we've now sold the players that we were forced to sell and we can choose the timing and the price for any future departures.

thanks for filling in the up-coming lads i think fellaini and jagielka will stay. get shut of nev and cahill in january. and bingo- top 5 finish

 

[Great Dane]

I very much like the idea. Every player has a price and if that price is met then let the player go. There is always a younger and better player around. Even though I love Timmy, I would sell him for around £8-10 m. he is 31 and his value will continue to drop. Go and get that younger player who is hungry to succeed and eager to prove himself.

This weekend I saw an interview with Paul Lambert and he explained why he had gone for young players with almost no PL experience when normally promotion teams tend to buy experienced performers no longer needed at their club. His reply was that he would rather have a young player that was eager to test himself and was willing to give it all in order to prove that he was PL quality than a experienced pro with his best years behind him and who basically just wanted that big fat last contract. That is basically the way to go IMO, and the reason I would like Lambert to take over.

In January we should move on Neville, Jags, Distin, Saha, Anichebe, Bilayletdinov, and Cahill if a reasonable offer is received. Fellaini, Baines and Rodwell should he the core of the team and should only be sold if a extraordinary (read Man City) bid is received.

Remember there is always a better player out there just waiting to be given a chance.

 

[Rothanaa]

I very much like the idea. Every player has a price and if that price is met then let the player go. There is always a younger and better player around. Even though I love Timmy, I would sell him for around £8-10 m. he is 31 and his value will continue to drop. Go and get that younger player who is hungry to succeed and eager to prove himself.

This weekend I saw an interview with Paul Lambert and he explained why he had gone for young players with almost no PL experience when normally promotion teams tend to buy experienced performers no longer needed at their club. His reply was that he would rather have a young player that was eager to test himself and was willing to give it all in order to prove that he was PL quality than a experienced pro with his best years behind him and who basically just wanted that big fat last contract. That is basically the way to go IMO, and the reason I would like Lambert to take over.

In January we should move on Neville, Jags, Distin, Saha, Anichebe, Bilayletdinov, and Cahill if a reasonable offer is received. Fellaini, Baines and Rodwell should he the core of the team and should only be sold if a extraordinary (read Man City) bid is received.

Remember there is always a better player out there just waiting to be given a chance.

This isn't fifa on the playstation mate, with mass changes you want we would plummet outside the top 8. We are struggling as it is and to remove such a large amount of experience is not the way to go. I like how united did it with the likes of Giggs and Scholes.

 

[Great Dane]

This isn't fifa on the playstation mate, with mass changes you want we would plummet outside the top 8. We are struggling as it is and to remove such a large amount of experience is not the way to go. I like how united did it with the likes of Giggs and Scholes.

I don't play playstation, mate!

what I'm basically saying is that when a player reaches a certain age we should try to move them on in order to still make a buck on them, instead of giving a 34 year old a new two year contract.

 

[DualityNSNO]

I don't play playstation, mate!

what I'm basically saying is that when a player reaches a certain age we should try to move them on in order to still make a buck on them, instead of giving a 34 year old a new two year contract.

Agree on what you wrote, but FFS keep Distin/Jags. For CB's it's not so bad to have experience.

Unless we sign someone younger, like James Collins from Villa for example.

 

[billycopper]

The old order running the club got us to the point you're hoping to get back to in much better times economically. They borrowed and sold assets to fund campaigns that got us to top 5 contenders and a cup final. That option is off the table now.

As I say, we need a root and branch change to move on. All we have at the moment is the ability to rearrange the deckchairs on the Titanic.

To stick with the horticultural analogies I think we just need a bit of pruning. Losing high earners like Arteta, Yakubu and hopefully Yobo will give our wage bill some breathing space. The academy is the best in the country and we've got reserves like Barkley, Gueye and Vellios making the breakthrough. If one or two more can get a game then we don't look in too bad shape. Who knows what's going on with the finances. Hopefully we've almost got our house in order and we can start to concentrate on football.