World Cup vs Premier League

[Bruce Wayne]

It's fair to say that the World Cup has been absolutely fantastic thus far, with a number of previously unheralded sides and players performing magnificently. A good number of players who have either flopped in the PL or would be looked down upon have performed incredibly well in this tournament.

It kinda reminds me of Alcaraz. He was often criticized for us last year, but I reckon he'd be one of those who would have attracted our interest if he'd have played in this tournament.

So I'm wondering why it is that so many Premier League 'flops' seem to be doing so well in the World Cup? They clearly aren't bad players, are they?

 

[Elong]

Pride in playing for their country, familiar faces and team surroundings, a feeling of being wanted and loved.

Mentally it would be far easier to get up and play at your peak in something like this than being in unfamiliar, cold wet miserable training grounds with hardly anyone who speaks your language.

Really shows how top level sport is more about what you've got upstairs than your ability sometimes.

 

[ilikecheese]

It's fair to say that the World Cup has been absolutely fantastic thus far, with a number of previously unheralded sides and players performing magnificently. A good number of players who have either flopped in the PL or would be looked down upon have performed incredibly well in this tournament.

It kinda reminds me of Alcaraz. He was often criticized for us last year, but I reckon he'd be one of those who would have attracted our interest if he'd have played in this tournament.

So I'm wondering why it is that so many Premier League 'flops' seem to be doing so well in the World Cup? They clearly aren't bad players, are they?

I think it really boils down to the fact that money can't fill the holes a team might have like at club level.

So, in a way the standards are lowered in a tournament like this. There are only a few nations that can field a team of players that are quality at every position. Germany is arguably one of the best overall teams in the tourney...they started Mustafi today. Certainly not a player that lights the world on fire. There are 'gash' players in virtually every side, which in a way opens things up for possibly lesser talents shining through.

There is that factor of playing for your country too. I think for many, this is the ultimate, and it brings the best out in them. That would be a cultural sort of thing that frankly could be explored for pages and pages.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Pride in playing for their country, familiar faces and team surroundings, a feeling of being wanted and loved.

Mentally it would be far easier to get up and play at your peak in something like this than being in unfamiliar, cold wet miserable training grounds with hardly anyone who speaks your language.

Really shows how top level sport is more about what you've got upstairs than your ability sometimes.

I think that's a great point, and perhaps goes to explain why so few English players ever exceed expectations at tournaments.

 

[Elong]

I think that's a great point, and perhaps goes to explain why so few English players ever exceed expectations at tournaments.

Cricket is a fantastic example of this. I can think of a large number of cricketers who have had all the ability in the world but unable to cope with the pressure. The level I reached would be considered semi-pro, but the people I left behind me I know for a fact had more natural talent in one finger than I did, I just wanted it more.

Footy surely is the same. It applies from grass roots all the way to the top. Bet everyone on here can think of or play with a Sunday Pub league superstar who could have but didn't make it.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Cricket is a fantastic example of this. I can think of a large number of cricketers who have had all the ability in the world but unable to cope with the pressure. The level I reached would be considered semi-pro, but the people I left behind me I know for a fact had more natural talent in one finger than I did, I just wanted it more.

Footy surely is the same. It applies from grass roots all the way to the top. Bet everyone on here can think of or play with a Sunday Pub league superstar who could have but didn't make it.

Yes, although I suppose if you get to Premier League level then you must be decent at handling the mental side of things. I just find it interesting how this World Cup is highlighting some really different performance levels. Some seem to be playing well above their club form, whilst others are a way below.

 

[Elong]

Yes, although I suppose if you get to Premier League level then you must be decent at handling the mental side of things. I just find it interesting how this World Cup is highlighting some really different performance levels. Some seem to be playing well above their club form, whilst others are a way below.

Definitely mental for me. I mean, if you couldn't lift your game for your country on the biggest sporting arena in the world, you're probably in the wrong job!

 

[marty mcfly]

Because international players generally all play the same way so they trust each other and understand how they play.

With the premiership there's more focus on pace and direct football so players that are used to playing like that seem better than they are.

Would top English players succeed in La Liga?

Germany barely got past Algeria and it certainly didn't look like there was any gulf in class but I wonder how a Tony Pullis team would do against Algeria.

England are going down the path (and have been trying for the past 20 years) of playing continental football of pass and move although have never got the manager right but I do wonder how they would have done playing long balls up to Carol looking for knockdowns and playing kick and chase.

Jack Charlton showed that it could work in a World Cup when he took Ireland to a Quarter Final and was narrowly beaten by the hosts Italy.

btw - The line Roy used about Barkley loosing the ball shows he's the wrong man for the job to get England playing possession football, it's just not his style. England would have done better if Roy had of played to his strengths in management although it wouldn't have been pretty.

 

[RaleighBlue]

I think it really boils down to the fact that money can't fill the holes a team might have like at club level.

So, in a way the standards are lowered in a tournament like this. There are only a few nations that can field a team of players that are quality at every position. Germany is arguably one of the best overall teams in the tourney...they started Mustafi today. Certainly not a player that lights the world on fire. There are 'gash' players in virtually every side, which in a way opens things up for possibly lesser talents shining through.

There is that factor of playing for your country too. I think for many, this is the ultimate, and it brings the best out in them. That would be a cultural sort of thing that frankly could be explored for pages and pages.

It's this.

Outside of nations such as Germany...and uh...Spain in 2010? International sides would be crushed by the better club sides. I know it's the 'highest level' of the game, but I think that's more to do with prestige and pressure than anything else.

The Americans love Jozy Altidore, for example, because the standard of defending in international play is low enough that he can bully defenders and actually be effective as a target man and center forward. Throw him in the Prem and he's just not skilled enough to get the job done - his strength and athleticism is not enough at that level. Champions League is even more competitive.

I also think the mentality of the coaches in the world cup has contributed to players apparently thriving and being top class. Very few teams have looked to go out and survive a siege. Most of these games have been open, which allows for high flying attack and brilliant last man challenges. The football is more exciting, and as a byproduct the players look better.

I think Everton would make the quarters at least in a World Cup, and teams like Chelsea, City, Barca, and the like would be odds on favorites every time. Talent is becoming more distributed by nationality and more concentrated by club, which means players that look absolutely ace in World Cups are perhaps just not that good when facing teams with a top shelf defense and good destroying mid. Or on the other end, don't look as good when facing top shelf strikers and attacking mids every week rather than Jozy Altidore, Samaras, and Reza Ghoochannejhad.

 

[Tubey]

It's why I'm wary of people raving about players like Navas and Origi - sure they're doing well but this is a tournament where a bunch of League One standard players have made the quarters in Costa Rica.

Conversely, it also highlights limitations - see Lukaku for details.

 

[Lord Buddha]

The premier league is different, the World Cup is without a doubt the biggest competition in the world and to be one of those 32 teams it must be an absolute honour to have been chosen for that 23 man squad. Like someone said its pride playing for your country and the World Cup submits you onto the world stage (puts you in the window)

With the World Cup, you don't know which game will be your last so you play every game as if it is your last.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Seems like you have at least three factors: level of competition is different; playing for your nation is different; culture shock when moving to a new league can kill productivity.

 

[The Hibbert Agenda]

Brian Ruiz is pretty much footballing royalty

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's why I'm wary of people raving about players like Navas and Origi - sure they're doing well but this is a tournament where a bunch of League One standard players have made the quarters in Costa Rica.

Conversely, it also highlights limitations - see Lukaku for details.

That team of League One standard players knocked out both Italy and England though. Was that a fluke?

 

[Tubey]

That team of League One standard players knocked out both Italy and England though. Was that a fluke?

Not at all; that side was more balanced, so the difference in terms of individual quality was overturned. For example, England had no holding midfield and Italy lacked fluency in the final third.

That's the thing with the World Cup - you can be a nation who produces nine outstanding players but if you have the odd Fred or Jo then the whole system starts to fall down, and international sides can't just buy in the "missing piece of the jigsaw" to cope with it.

That's also been my problem with England for a long, long time. Sometimes, just because certain players aren't playing at the highest level, it doesn't mean you should overlook them in the search for a more balanced unit.