who is the greatest?

[Eggs]

...definitely Maradona for me. He drove an ordinary Argentina team to World Cup success and turned around the fortunes of his club team in Italy.

 

[Mozza1987]

He's only believed to have carried them because the people making such claims have limited knowledge of football. The Argentina side in 1986 had some cracking players. It's worth noting that despite hosting the Copa America in 1987, Argentina only managed 4th. In 1989 they finished 3rd without winning a single game in the 2nd stage. That's with Maradona in his prime.

The whole notion that Messi hasn't achieved anything with Argentina is bizarre as well. They've reached three Copa America finals and a World Cup final with him in the team. Really hopeless.

How are finals achieving something? They lost. What team or countries celebrate losing a final. You are allowed your opinion on him but for me to be truly great you need to prove yourself internationally and/or in different leagues. He has stayed at one of the best teams in the world while he has been there in one league. So for me he is great and I am not saying he isn't but currently he is behind a few to be the greatest for me.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Maradona : stood out in a team full of (according to people on here) bums.

Messi : stands out in a team full of world and top class players.

Logic says Messi has to be better.

 

[FC sexy xxx]

It isn't nonsense though. Does Messi carry Barcelona to all these titles and cups? No because they have other fantastic players as well. Maradona carried Argentina to a World Cup so why hasn't Messi done the same? Maradona won things in multiple leagues. Why hasn't Messi done this? Personally I think it's because he doesn't want to taint his brilliance if he say came to the Premier League and didn't hack it. You could say Ronaldo is better because he has won in different leagues and proved himself to be adaptable and won things internationally. He also carries Real more than Messi does Barcelona.

I am not saying Messi isn't great because he is but at the moment for me he is behind Maradona and Pele for greatness but that could change by the end of his career. I personally think some people who were not alive to see these two players dismiss them and go with someone like Messi who is current.

outside of Argentina and Italy maradona didn’t have a very successful club career .barca is one the top 4 clubs in the world the longevity of his success is ridiculous. You only stay at a Barca or Madrid your whole career if you are something special nowadays. Maradona was a failure in Spain in comparison to Messi

Messi dragged a poor Argentina to the final and lost to a Germany loaded with top players . He was one of if not The player of the tournament

The only 2 arguments are he never won a World Cup and he only played for Barca which are pathetic. Cruyff never won a WC , Best ???

Messi has single has carried Barca to plenty of wins . You don’t score the amount of goals he has without doing so .

People always say Messi needs to play in England to prove himself? Why it’s the land of the yard dog and our top teams aren’t exactly winning loads of European trophies . It’s funny how Barca and Madrid take there pick of the top players over here .

Pele never left Brazil
Maldini and baresi never left Italy
Crap them mate
Giggs never left England

Messi has scored more club goals than maradona has played club games .

 

[Mozza1987]

Maradona : stood out in a team full of (according to people on here) bums.

Messi : stands out in a team full of world and top class players.

Logic says Messi has to be better.

No one is saying they were bums but they were an ordinary team and Maradona carried them to win the World Cup. Like he did with Napoli.

That's the point, Barca have had and do have world class players so would have they won things or win thins now without him. The answer would be yes. Messi obviously helps but he is a fanatasic player but they would be challenging across the board without him anyway.

 

[Mozza1987]

outside of Argentina and Italy maradona didn’t have a very successful club career .barca is one the top 4 clubs in the world the longevity of his success is ridiculous. You only stay at a Barca or Madrid your whole career if you are something special nowadays. Maradona was a failure in Spain in comparison to Messi

Messi dragged a poor Argentina to the final and lost to a Germany loaded with top players . He was one of if not The player of the tournament

The only 2 arguments are he never won a World Cup and he only played for Barca which are pathetic. Cruyff never won a WC , Best ???

Messi has single has carried Barca to plenty of wins . You don’t score the amount of goals he has without doing so .

People always say Messi needs to play in England to prove himself? Why it’s the land of the yard dog and our top teams aren’t exactly winning loads of European trophies . It’s funny how Barca and Madrid take there pick of the top players over here .

Pele never left Brazil
Maldini and baresi never left Italy
Crap them mate
Giggs never left England

Messi has scored more club goals than maradona has played club games .

He won stuff with Barca mate and what he did with Napoli was fantastic.

Messi still lost the tournament. Like I said before, tell me any player, club or country that celebrates losing a final?

Not just the World Cup but he hasn't even won the Copa America either. Yeah that's why Best and Cruyff are not at the top for me. Messi hasn't carried Barca though, they would have won things and challenged every season without him. I ain't saying England but it takes special players to adapt to other leagues and then continually win things regularly. Think of the amount of decent players have come to this league that have flopped.

Like I said you can have your opinion but for me he isn't at the top for the things I have stated. No way am I saying Messi isn't great though as he is just behind them.

 

[FC sexy xxx]

He won stuff with Barca mate and what he did with Napoli was fantastic.

Messi still lost the tournament. Like I said before, tell me any player, club or country that celebrates losing a final?

Not just the World Cup but he hasn't even won the Copa America either. Yeah that's why Best and Cruyff are not at the top for me. Messi hasn't carried Barca though, they would have won things and challenged every season without him. I ain't saying England but it takes special players to adapt to other leagues and then continually win things regularly. Think of the amount of decent players have come to this league that have flopped.

Like I said you can have your opinion but for me he isn't at the top for the things I have stated. No way am I saying Messi isn't great though as he is just behind them.

I know maradona won a cup with Barca mate

You are basically writing Messi out of the best player ever because of losing 1 game . I think it’s a ludicrous way of seeing it but we all hold different opinions .

IMO I love the World Cup but it isn’t great anymore. The champions league is a better barometer of a player .

 

[Mozza1987]

I know maradona won a cup with Barca mate

You are basically writing Messi out of the best player ever because of losing 1 game . I think it’s a ludicrous way of seeing it but we all hold different opinions .

IMO I love the World Cup but it isn’t great anymore. The champions league is a better barometer of a player .

You seem to think I am saying Messi is garbage or something which I ain't. He would be in my top 5 but I have stated the reasons why he isn't the greatest for me which I think are fair. Many other people on here haven't picked Messi either.

It ain't ludicrous because like I said Messi has stayed at a world top 4 club his whole career. I admire what he has done there but I don't see how you can be the greatest ever player to be seen on this planet just from that. Barca would have won things without him. We will just leave it at that anyway.

 

[FC sexy xxx]

You seem to think I am saying Messi is garbage or something which I ain't. He would be in my top 5 but I have stated the reasons why he isn't the greatest for me which I think are fair. Many other people on here haven't picked Messi either.

It ain't ludicrous because like I said Messi has stayed at a world top 4 club his whole career. I admire what he has done there but I don't see how you can be the greatest ever player to be seen on this planet just from that. Barca would have won things without him. We will just leave it at that anyway.

if you read my post I said you are writing him out of the best player EVER argument because of one game in 2014 .

I’m not saying that you think he is garbage whatsoever . But if you are honest you are writing him out of that argument because of 1 defeat in a final .

 

[dholliday]

Maradona : stood out in a team full of (according to people on here) bums.

Messi : stands out in a team full of world and top class players.

Logic says Messi has to be better.

Messi was outshined by his German peers in the biggest game of his life.
Maradona outshone his German peers in the biggest game of his life, tho' to be fair the scores were evened 4 years later.

Lots of factors which can swing the argument one way or t'other. History will decide in the end, and while Messi (and Cristiano) will lead the stats, Maradona (and Pele) will likely remain at the top of people's affections. Football's an emotional beast, and it's those feels at least as much as numbers that will decide who is the greatest.

 

[Mozza1987]

if you read my post I said you are writing him out of the best player EVER argument because of one game in 2014 .

I’m not saying that you think he is garbage whatsoever . But if you are honest you are writing him out of that argument because of 1 defeat in a final .

He lost though mate. Simple as that. So he has never won anything at international level which is one of my two points which I have already told you to why I don't think he is the greatest. I respect your opinion mate and I can see why you say he is for what he has done at Barca but for me he isn't. Leaving it at that now anyway.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

He lost though mate. Simple as that. So he has never won anything at international level which is one of my two points which I have already told you to why I don't think he is the greatest. I respect your opinion mate and I can see why you say he is for what he has done at Barca but for me he isn't. Leaving it at that now anyway.

The problem for me with the whole "hasn' t won things" argument (which gets used against lots of players not just Messi) is that you cannot really judge a players ability (which is presumably the whole point of this discussion) on how much they've won in a team sport.

In individual sports, sure, as a general rule ability and success will go hand in hand. But in team sport there are so many other variables in play (namely your 10 team mates) which influence what you will win.

Didn't Higuain miss a late sitter in the final of the Copa America meaning Argentina, and thus Messi would have won the title if he had scored it? Is that really the difference?

In 86 if Maradona hadn't cheated in the QF, or if Burrachaga had missed to go 3-2 up maybe Maradona wouldn't have won a WC. I just don't how such fine margins dependant on the performance of other players can determine the ability of another player.

 

[dholliday]

He lost though mate. Simple as that. So he has never won anything at international level which is one of my two points which I have already told you to why I don't think he is the greatest. I respect your opinion mate and I can see why you say he is for what he has done at Barca but for me he isn't. Leaving it at that now anyway.

Aye. Winning the biggest match of all - the World Cup Final - is a huge plus in the who is the greatest debate, especially if your country is a major player and you even played in a final or semis, and were instrumental in your nation winning.

That combined with a superlative club career...so from that perspective Pele, Maradona, Beckenbauer, Matthäus, Ronaldo and Xavi all have at least a good a shout at the top as a Messi or Cristiano.