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What's gone wrong with United?

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billycopper

Player Valuation: £40m
1. Muelensteen was going to go anyway because SAF was a hands-off coach in contrast to Moyes and it would have significantly reduced his role. But I think that Davey should have kept hold of Phelan. Replacing him with two former players with next to no coaching experience between them didn't make any sense.

2. It seems like Moyes thought he could sign anyone because he was at United. Surely all he had to do was make informal enquiries about the availability of Fabregas and Alcantara and he would have known pretty much instantly whether it was worth persuing his interest. But in true Moyes still he tried to force his will and lost valuable time securing more attainable targets.

3. Rooney reportedly asked United to sign Ozil and was told that he wasn't needed.

4. I think Davey bought Fellaini because he wanted a marquee signing without really thinking how he was going to use him. Fella regards himself as a defensive midfielder and it is an area where United are lacking, but he's hardly played there in the last couple of years and he doesn't have the legs to get across the ground quickly. They could do with someone like McCarthy to do the running for him but why then pay £27m for a Gareth Barry-a-like when you have Carrick in your side?

5. The balance of the side is wrong. Smalling isn't a right back, Vidic is no longer a powerhouse and Evans doesn't have the pace or the reading of the game to cover for his colleagues. The wingers don't have the necessary skill or deliver and they have no creativity in midfield.

6. Moyes isn't cute enough with his tactics. It's too easy to counter-attack United and they struggle to break teams down. I think he's trying to demonstrate that he's attacking and entertaining by going 4-4-2 but it's leaving them far too open. He'd probably be better sticking with 4-2-3-1 and having Rooney in the hole flanked by Januzaj and Kagawa.

7. Perhaps under Ferguson the players thought that the club were going to be successful no matter what and if they didn't perform they would be out. But the way that everyone has asked for Moyes to be given time meant that ambitions were lowered and they could afford to take their foot off the gas a little bit.

8. Why should the fear factor suddenly have gone? Maybe because SAF intimidated opposition managers (and in turn their players), the officials and even his own players. Moyes knows that he is trying to get his feet under the table and if a player turns around and asks why he should listen all Davey really has is a fourth-placed finish and an FA Cup final to come back at them with.

9. Van Persie wasn't in the greatest of form before his injury lay-off and rushing him back has probably prolonged it.

10. Davey is undoubtedly under huge pressure. Nearly all the players there have only ever known being top of the pile and it will be a bewildering and frustrating experience to find themselves where they are. It's a key period for players like Smalling, Cleverley, Kagawa and Wellbeck and the flip side of point number 7 is that they might be trying too hard and not playing their natural game.

Moyes' natural inclination is to be cautious but maybe Fergie mentored him that you can't win silverware by playing for draws? I think sooner or later he'll have to abandon the idea of playing flair football and concentrate on making them hard to beat. They've scored against every side apart from us, Newcastle, Liverpool and Chelsea, so they should be able to manage some narrow wins to push them up the table and buy the manager some time until the summer, when he can take stock.

It wouldn't surprise me if they won the Carling Cup and that acted as a catalyst. They do need a bit of a shake up though.
 

I think it's the Fergie factor.

For me, my post here isn't such a dig at Moyes, more a huge compliment to Ferguson. Moyes has inherited the exact same side as what Fergie had, with the addition of Varela and Fellaini. When you compare the Everton team and the United team you see Young, Cleverley, Welbeck, Nani, Anderson, 40-Year Old Giggs, Smalling, Evans and it's just not a great team, take out Jones, Rooney and Van Persie, and i think all our players are better than theirs, so it really isn't a shock that they're struggling.

Fergie and his backroom staff worked wonders getting that team to win the league, hats off to him. The man was the most respected man in football, aswell as the most hated for being a wonderful manager, but it feels for me like he knew it was time to get out, (other than Van Persie, what was the last 'marquee' player United signed) and he clearly was blinded by the Moyes media hype as much as the next man.

Moyes has came into an impossible job imho, how do you replace the unreplaceable? You can't. But still, it's amazing really, even though i felt disillusioned with Moyes throughout his tenure at Everton, like in the time we got smashed 4-0, 3 weeks on the run, or when the football went that negative, we dropped to below 30,000 a home game for the first time in 10 years under what was stagnant or when he bottled a very winnable semi final, very winnable quarter final or his repeated over-cautiousness, which simply held us back. Whilst i'm not making a dig at the fella here, he took us as far as he could, and he really did start to believe his own hype. Unsurprisingly, he's gone to United, and stuck with what he does, which is be very conservative and it's clearly back fired. So many teams feared going to Old Trafford, yet, it was almost as if his tactics were to roll over and let his teams belly be tickled, again the fella was unlucky to inherit the team he did, but, they really are poison!

I watched them against Swansea, and they didn't create ANYTHING! Rooney and RVP may have been out, but Fergie wouldn't of lost today, i guarantee it.

So what's gone wrong with United?

A) Ferguson was a top manager, and it's hard to replace someone like that
B: His backroom staff too were brilliant
C) Head of Recruitment change, Gill was a huge factor in signings for United
c) Moyes lacks the fear and respect of the players, who don't seem like they want to play for him
D) I don't think Moyes is that great of a manager anyway
E) Poor Squad
F) Other teams don't fear them anymore.

But Moyes can [Poor language removed], for me that's me trying to be not bias at all, it may convey like that mind. I guess they have to give Moyes time to gel, but can they afford to really can they? If they don't get CL, what pull will they have? No Fergie, and not a great squad to play with.
 

They'll go on a Moyes-esque second of the half season run. When Rooney and Van Persie are back plus i'll be shocked if they dont add in Jan.
 

Since the Glazers put them forever in debt they've only had a net spend of 21m on average per season. This is amongst the lowest in the league, certainly way below the spend of their direct competitors (Arsenal excluded). Even Stoke City have spent more.

That and Moyes being as inspiring for a group of overpaid preeners as a potato.
 
4. I think Davey bought Fellaini because he wanted a marquee signing without really thinking how he was going to use him. Fella regards himself as a defensive midfielder and it is an area where United are lacking, but he's hardly played there in the last couple of years and he doesn't have the legs to get across the ground quickly. They could do with someone like McCarthy to do the running for him but why then pay £27m for a Gareth Barry-a-like when you have Carrick in your side?

Seems to me that Moyes has a very rigid system in mind for winning games, and that comes with very rigid opinions on who fits the system.

5. The balance of the side is wrong. Smalling isn't a right back, Vidic is no longer a powerhouse and Evans doesn't have the pace or the reading of the game to cover for his colleagues. The wingers don't have the necessary skill or deliver and they have no creativity in midfield.

The talent on that side appears surprisingly average, for the most part

6. Moyes isn't cute enough with his tactics. It's too easy to counter-attack United and they struggle to break teams down. I think he's trying to demonstrate that he's attacking and entertaining by going 4-4-2 but it's leaving them far too open. He'd probably be better sticking with 4-2-3-1 and having Rooney in the hole flanked by Januzaj and Kagawa.

I haven't watched enough football, but seems to me that Moyes has a tactic. To suggest he has more than one tactic might be stretching it.

7. Perhaps under Ferguson the players thought that the club were going to be successful no matter what and if they didn't perform they would be out. But the way that everyone has asked for Moyes to be given time meant that ambitions were lowered and they could afford to take their foot off the gas a little bit.

8. Why should the fear factor suddenly have gone? Maybe because SAF intimidated opposition managers (and in turn their players), the officials and even his own players. Moyes knows that he is trying to get his feet under the table and if a player turns around and asks why he should listen all Davey really has is a fourth-placed finish and an FA Cup final to come back at them with.

10. Davey is undoubtedly under huge pressure. Nearly all the players there have only ever known being top of the pile and it will be a bewildering and frustrating experience to find themselves where they are. It's a key period for players like Smalling, Cleverley, Kagawa and Wellbeck and the flip side of point number 7 is that they might be trying too hard and not playing their natural game.

These are one in the same. Moyes doesn't lack confidence because he lacks hardware. He lacks confidence because he doubts himself. SAF is quite incomparable, but it's safe to say that he made the team better than it was last season.

I think if given the time Moyes will sort it out at United, but even then he likely faces the same future as AVB. I'm not convinced that Moyes football will be acceptable to United fans; I don't think he can get them to "play like Fergie's boys."
 
Want to know whats wrong at United then its a pretty simple set of ingredients that have led to the demise of a lot of previous dominant sides.

Gradual weakening of the starting squad quality through replacing better players with players who prove inferior
Gradual aging of key areas of the team without replacing without integrating younger players of equal quality gradually
Reduction in the quality of the managerial staff
Reduction in the quality of the quality of scouting
Reduction in the quality of the none managerial staff involved in player acquisition
Improvement in any of the areas mentioned above by their direct competitors
Staleness and complacency setting into a lot of players, which when combined with all the above factors proves fatal
Loss of the fear factor as other teams and managers now recognize all of the above

Look at all the above points and their prety spot on in my opinion

United defense has aged dramatically this season, been in gradual decline the past 2 or so, but this year has been the tipping point, ferdinand has gone from very good to a liability, Vidic from a dominant player to one who looks vulnerable a lot of the time, combined with fitness issues for both, and with their supposed replacements not being up to the grade, its led to teams really knowing they can get joy going at united rather than feeling they'd get picked apart by a resolute defense stopping them dead before tearing them apart on the break if they attacked utd, now they can just be penned back and got at

Midfield, where is the Scoles,peak giggs,bechkam, keane, ronaldo, hell even robson in the current united team, their best is carrick, who is a complimentary midfielder ala barry, he's not good enough to bring up those around him, and frankly hes got a bad injury record and is aging himself, rest of the midfield are a collection of players bought who haven't developed, players bought who haven't adjusted to the league, players bought on hype who dont fit into the system or the players around them and most alarmingly a lack of any any players developed from their academy with the quality required

Forwards, a over reliance on 2 players, one who has struggled with fitness his entire career and was lucky to stay fit last season in van persie, but whose old problems from his arsenal days have come back this season, without him they have rooney whose not only expected to be their scorer, hes also by far their most creative player, but who can he create for atm, welbeck?

Bringing in Moyes to replace Ferguson at such a critical moment when the squad is in need of a huge overhaul and moyes being afraid of making any major changes, yes i blame moyes not wanting to be seen to change Ferguson's squad too much for a lot of their problems, fact is he had to be brave and make his stamp under the realization that he needed to, instead he has sat by and ignored whats glaringly obvious about the points i stated above regarding the quality and age of the utd squad

Woodward coming in and effectively giving utd a total incompetent alongside moyes who unlike his predecessor wont be much aid if any to pushing moyes towards whats needed or helping acquire his targets.

Look at the united team atm, and Rooney aside where the hell is the passion for playing for them out of their current team, no ones showing anything atm, no desire, just a embaressed look when they get beat, its almost like they don't 'get united' which playing for them they should do

IF Moyes survives till the nend of the season, to have any success at Utd whatsoever he needs to clear out about 7-10 players and bring in 4-5 real top quality mid 20's replacements who know this league or are of such ability that they will adjust fast, failure to do so will see utd going into a arsenal at best situation of fighting for 4th each year, or at worse could see them dropping out of the top 6 for a period of time before they start addressing their numerous issues
 
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