"We've Played 4-4-2 In The Last Few Weeks"

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Summerskin said:
It's 4-6-0.

Cahill comes back to chase the ball and Saha goes wide left constantly.
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This. If Fellaini picks the ball up in front of our own defence, who does he have to aim for? Osman, Rodwell and Cahill will be stood next to him, because we defend deep and narrow, and Saha will be stood still half way up the pitch.

Fella could aim a hopeful ball in Saha's direction but, if it's not cut out by the defenders, we won't be able to get support to him quick enough, so he'll have to beat two men and run half the left of the pitch himself to score.

He could spread it out wide to Coleman, but he'll most likely run into the corner, outpacing Saha, and then not be able to do anything other than put a hopeful ball into the box himself.

The third option is for him to make a short pass to one of his midfield colleagues to try and buy some time for us to amble forward, by which time the opposition are back themselves and organised.
 

billycopper said:
This. If Fellaini picks the ball up in front of our own defence, who does he have to aim for? Osman, Rodwell and Cahill will be stood next to him, because we defend deep and narrow, and Saha will be stood still half way up the pitch.

Fella could aim a hopeful ball in Saha's direction but, if it's not cut out by the defenders, we won't be able to get support to him quick enough, so he'll have to beat two men and run half the left of the pitch himself to score.

He could spread it out wide to Coleman, but he'll most likely run into the corner, outpacing Saha, and then not be able to do anything other than put a hopeful ball into the box himself.

The third option is for him to make a short pass to one of his midfield colleagues to try and buy some time for us to amble forward, by which time the opposition are back themselves and organised.
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Also correct. Merry Christmas.
 
In all seriousness, does anyone remember the last time we scored off a counter? Or even threatened to score off a counter????

Oh wait, I think I remember - Beckford vs. Chelsea?

God that feels like an eternity ago.
 
Kay20 said:
In all seriousness, does anyone remember the last time we scored off a counter? Or even threatened to score off a counter????

Oh wait, I think I remember - Beckford vs. Chelsea?

God that feels like an eternity ago.
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I wouldnt even class that as a counter, more a one off solo goal.

There was Pienaar against Arsenal and i think also against Man U at home.

No wonder he got sold.

And 4-4-2? You need the right players in the right formation so while it may be true that if Cahill has been playing higher up the pitch than he does in a 4-5-1 then its a 4-4-2 but that still doesn't mean its a good thing because 4-4-2 means 2 strikers, not just someone hanging around next to another striker.
 

It has not at any point been a 4-4-2.

The formation doesn't mean fitting square pegs into round holes. Literally, Cahill can never be classed as a striker as he isn't a striker. If we attempted to play 4-5-1 with Cahill as the "lone striker" then in reality it's 4-6-0.

Therefore, no matter what Moyes is saying, we have not been playing 4-4-2 - it's been 4-5-1. You could make an argument for it being 4-2-3-1 but you can't for 4-4-2.

It's very very simple. To adopt a 4-4-2 you have to play two strikers - that does not include an attacking midfielder masquerading as a striker.
 
So if he played Coleman and Neville in midfield, it would become 6-3-1?
And if he played Coleman, Neville AND Rodwell it would become 7-2-1?
And if he played Coleman, Neville, Rodwell AND Cahill it would become 7-3-0?

See where im going with this?

Cahill has played AS a Striker for the last 2 Years or so, probably ever since we started buying Strikers that cant header a ball, Yakubu, Beckford, Saha.

Just cos YOU dont deem Cahill as a Striker, it doesnt mean hes not 1.

The facts are, Our Manager has said we have been playing 4-4-2, any fool with eyes can see that Cahill has played as a Striker.

P.s, Saha isnt a Striker, hes a lazy sack of utter crap, hes barely even a footballer anymore.

Just sayin.
Your arguement is VERY flawed, but seems its Christmas Day, good will to all Men and that, im gonna let it go.
 
MoutsGoat said:
So if he played Coleman and Neville in midfield, it would become 6-3-1?
And if he played Coleman, Neville AND Rodwell it would become 7-2-1?
And if he played Coleman, Neville, Rodwell AND Cahill it would become 7-3-0?

See where im going with this?

Cahill has played AS a Striker for the last 2 Years or so, probably ever since we started buying Strikers that cant header a ball, Yakubu, Beckford, Saha.

Just cos YOU dont deem Cahill as a Striker, it doesnt mean hes not 1.

The facts are, Our Manager has said we have been playing 4-4-2, any fool with eyes can see that Cahill has played as a Striker.

P.s, Saha isnt a Striker, hes a lazy sack of utter crap, hes barely even a footballer anymore.

Just sayin.
Your arguement is VERY flawed, but seems its Christmas Day, good will to all Men and that, im gonna let it go.
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Ha... That's not what I'm saying and you know it. If you put Neville as an attacking right winger, he's clearly not one and he'd drop deeper, so he'd be a wide midfielder at best. So any claim that the team put out with him in that position was set up as a 4-2-3-1 would be incorrect - it would be a 4-4-1-1 or a 4-5-1 depending on what other personnel were used.

Formations aren't black and white. It's how the personnel are used in the formation. Even if Moyes believes he's playing a 4-4-2 he's deluding himself because in effect when the players are on the field of play it's a 4-5-1, or at best a 4-2-3-1 if the wingers are advanced.

To adopt a 4-4-2 properly you have two strikers who run the channels and pull defenders sideways, not drag them deeper towards the halfway line as Cahill does.

He's an attacking midfielder and he's been adopted exclusively as an attacking midfielder. There's a huge, huge difference between a 4-4-2 and simply playing two offensive players in the most advanced role. In that case, you could claim that a team made exclusively of defenders was a 4-4-2 and call the first two players to cross the halfway line the "strikers".
 
deathbyropeandglass said:
I wouldnt even class that as a counter, more a one off solo goal.

There was Pienaar against Arsenal and i think also against Man U at home.

No wonder he got sold.

And 4-4-2? You need the right players in the right formation so while it may be true that if Cahill has been playing higher up the pitch than he does in a 4-5-1 then its a 4-4-2 but that still doesn't mean its a good thing because 4-4-2 means 2 strikers, not just someone hanging around next to another striker.
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I was trying to use the fact that we haven't had a counter in AGES to illustrate the fact that we haven't really played a 4-4-2. I know counters don't necessarily need that formation (i.e. you can have midfielders on the top of the box instead of strikers ready to counter), but having two up top theoretically helps opposed to hinders the counter as you're supposed to have, you know, two up top.

If it is indeed Pienaar as the last counter - good lord. WE ARE SLOW. Also illustrates that Coleman doesn't really help on the counter as I find him to be more a dribbler in tight spaces rather than running into space. Then again, he didn't really have anyone with pace to pass it to up until recently in Drenthe, and even then Drenthe is usually on the other side of the pitch.

Can we actually play a 4-4-2 with speed when Pienaar, LD and some unnamed striker get here?
 

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