Vietnam '67

[abelard]

Any Vietnam War aficionados out there?

Plenty in the works this year:

Ken Burns' documentary is scheduled for September
http://kenburns.com/films/vietnam/

In the mean time, the New York Times is running a weekly series, with historians, journalists, and participants from all sides
https://www.nytimes.com/column/vietnam-67

"Vietnam, The War that Killed Trust"
Karl Marlantes
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/07/opinion/sunday/vietnam-the-war-that-killed-trust.html?rref=collection/column/vietnam-67&action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=3&pgtype=collection

"1967, The Era of Big Battles in Vietnam"
Ron Milam
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/opinion/1967-the-era-of-big-battles-in-vietnam.html?rref=collection/column/vietnam-67&action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=2&pgtype=collection
(The Village of Ben Suc, Jonathan Schell's classic book about this episode, is must-read)

"As the Earth Shook, They Stood Firm"
Hai T. Nguyen
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/opinion/as-the-earth-shook-they-stood-firm.html?rref=collection/column/vietnam-67&action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection

Any books you like?

 

[orly]

I was there in '61

 

[ilikecheese]

I had pho last week.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Looking forward to the Ken Burns documentary. He did an outstanding job on the American Civil War series...

 

[kev]

 

[abelard]

I was there in '61

really? where were you?

 

[BlueLlama]

Suckee suckee 5 dollar

 

[The binman chronicles]

I've done a couple of tours in 'nam. The horrors I've witnessed beggars belief, for a fairly posh Market town you'd think Cheltenham would be better than that...

 

[verreauxi]

Went through a phase where I was reading lots on the Vietnam war, both fiction (e.g., The Things they carried, other Tim O'Brien, Matterhorn) and non-fiction (e.g., ChickenHawk, If I Die in a combat zone, etc.).

One of the sets of books that I read, not for prose or writing skills, but just for its fascinating subject, was on the tunnel system and the tunnel rats. I tried to read all books on the topic (which are few). I can't remember which book was the best, but I recall that there were some Viet Cong colonels who spent more than 8 months underground, the Viet Cong army hospitals underground, and the old pictures of the entertainment (theatre, dancing girls, etc.) that were provided for the soldiers, who lived in horrible conditions. The tunnel rats, usually wirey small guys, were the respected US soldiers who went into this system, which was full of booby traps. Hand-to-hand combat wasn't uncommon in the pitch black. I seem to recall their weapon of choice was a six-shooter, after that it was just a knife and flashlight. Anyways, someone with good good directing skills needs to do a movie on this stuff.

 

[abelard]

Went through a phase where I was reading lots on the Vietnam war, both fiction (e.g., The Things they carried, other Tim O'Brien, Matterhorn) and non-fiction (e.g., ChickenHawk, If I Die in a combat zone, etc.).

One of the sets of books that I read, not for prose or writing skills, but just for its fascinating subject, was on the tunnel system and the tunnel rats. I tried to read all books on the topic (which are few). I can't remember which book was the best, but I recall that there were some Viet Cong colonels who spent more than 8 months underground, the Viet Cong army hospitals underground, and the old pictures of the entertainment (theatre, dancing girls, etc.) that were provided for the soldiers, who lived in horrible conditions. The tunnel rats, usually wirey small guys, were the respected US soldiers who went into this system, which was full of booby traps. Hand-to-hand combat wasn't uncommon in the pitch black. I seem to recall their weapon of choice was a six-shooter, after that it was just a knife and flashlight. Anyways, someone with good good directing skills needs to do a movie on this stuff.

I couldn't even begin to imagine...

There are tourist tunnels at Cu Chi, West of Saigon, which have been enlarged because foreigners and many Vietnamese these days are much too big for the originals. But they are just one of many sets of tunnels you can find - they're virtually everywhere, especially in the South. Many of them date back to the wars against France.

On the Northern side of the Demilitarized Zone, where North and South were divided, there were entire villages that lived 10m underground for the duration of the American war: http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/travel/93216/creeping-down-to-vinh-moc-tunnel.html

And in Laos, much of the Eastern and Southern countryside lived in caves for years to escape the bombing:


The second article in the NYT series is about how the Americans tried to clear one series of tunnels at Ben Suc, which threatened Saigon and its environs. The Jonathan Schell book (on the same campaign) is riveting, and very revealing about how and way the war turned out as it did. And not that long. It's amazing that he was only 24 at the time.

 

[verreauxi]

I couldn't even begin to imagine...

There are tourist tunnels at Cu Chi, West of Saigon, which have been enlarged because foreigners and many Vietnamese these days are much too big for the originals. But they are just one of many sets of tunnels you can find - they're virtually everywhere, especially in the South. Many of them date back to the wars against France.

On the Northern side of the Demilitarized Zone, where North and South were divided, there were entire villages that lived 10m underground for the duration of the American war: http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/travel/93216/creeping-down-to-vinh-moc-tunnel.html

And in Laos, much of the Eastern and Southern countryside lived in caves for years to escape the bombing:


The second article in the NYT series is about how the Americans tried to clear one series of tunnels at Ben Suc, which threatened Saigon and its environs. The Jonathan Schell book (on the same campaign is riveting), and very revealing about how and way the war turned out as it did. And not that long. It's amazing that he was only 24 at the time.

That bombing map is proof that some of the last big and nonprimate mammal species were found recently in Vietnam. Countries been at war for 30 years and bombed to s__t for a few years and a few lowly and strange ungulates managed to make it through to the 1990s to be discovered.

Will check out the NYT articles.

 

[ilikecheese]

Laos looks festive there.





(I jest...that's insane)

 

[Ruairi77]

Travelled a good bit there about 10 years ago. Toured the DMZ, tunnels, Hanoi Hilton etc. The main museum in HCMC is called The Museum of American War Attrocities.
Also went to S21 in Phnom Penh. That was the most upsetting place I've ever seen.

 

[Kurt.]

Brilliant.... love it when the yanks get their arses spanked

 

[Gwlacticos]

Tigerland was a good film, I thought.