The rest of the league campaign

[davek]

All the talk's on the cup and has been for two weeks when it's been obsessed about and now it'll be obsessed over again for another 9 days at least until this replay is done and dusted.

Moyes went with a very bold statement on Saturday saying the league wasn't there for us and the cup is the most important thing (he said 'we cant win the league' but the mentality and message was that points were being sacrificed for this FA Cup run). So:

a) how does he get these players back up again for the coming Arsenal and Swansea fixtures

and

b ) if we lose the replay what sort of motivation can the manager expect to get from the players having been told it's all about the cup?

It doesn't bother me finishing 14th rather than 8th from a status point of view, but I'm mindful that it represents about £3M that'll have to either be made up elsewhere by a sale of a player or we just dont by someone in the summer we were planning to.

I suppose what I'm asking is: isn't it about time we started worrying about a complete collapse in the last 10 games?

 

[Tubey]

Luckily, the squad quality is there to avoid a total collapse.

I think the top ten represents a minimum to the players (if, apparently, it's a "fantastic achievement" from the managers point of view, bizarrely) and professional pride will kick in.

Our run in is fairly kind too. We could foreseeably with seven or eight of our remaining games. It's only United and Arsenal that are hiccups.

 

[Goat]

I would play the under 9s for the rest of the League games.

 

[davek]

Luckily, the squad quality is there to avoid a total collapse.

I think the top ten represents a minimum to the players (if, apparently, it's a "fantastic achievement" from the managers point of view, bizarrely) and professional pride will kick in.

Our run in is fairly kind too. We could foreseeably with seven or eight of our remaining games. It's only United and Arsenal that are hiccups.

I'd be wondering about the professional attitude all told, tbh mate. It comes from the top and I'm not seeing too much evidence of it at the moment. They are well paid, but if I'm a player with no emotional connections to the club or the pride of being local etc I'd be forgiven for asking myself why I should get up again when I've been told effectively to stand down on the points accumulation.

 

[dholliday]

I'd be wondering about the professional attitude all told, tbh mate.

We've mostly got good-hearted lads playing for us, I wouldn't worry about that.

 

[Tubey]

I'd be wondering about the professional attitude all told, tbh mate. It comes from the top and I'm not seeing too much evidence of it at the moment. They are well paid, but if I'm a player with no emotional connections to the club or the pride of being local etc I'd be forgiven for asking myself why I should get up again when I've been told effectively to stand down on the points accumulation.

I get what you're saying. The problem we have is that, as a group of players, we have a massive amount of... well... "losers". I mean that in the best possible way, simply in that we don't have players who simply refuse to be beaten.

The only one we have is Heitinga. You can see it. He cheats and steals pitch position, sees every possible advantage to win at all costs.

The rest of the squad are "nice guys", shaking hands, not complaining to the ref etc. That's our main problem.

BUT... they still have professional pride. I don't think we'll suffer a collapse. The problem at Everton is we don't have the mindset to push on to the next level when you get to 8th place or thereabouts, which is epitomised by the manager who threw the derby even when it gave us the chance to push above Liverpool and qualify for Europe in the league.

As I said at the start of the season, 8th-10th is where we'll end up.

 

[dholliday]

I get what you're saying. The problem we have is that, as a group of players, we have a massive amount of... well... "losers". I mean that in the best possible way, simply in that we don't have players who simply refuse to be beaten.

The only one we have is Heitinga. You can see it. He cheats and steals pitch position, sees every possible advantage to win at all costs.

The rest of the squad are "nice guys", shaking hands, not complaining to the ref etc. That's our main problem.

BUT... they still have professional pride. I don't think we'll suffer a collapse. The problem at Everton is we don't have the mindset to push on to the next level when you get to 8th place or thereabouts, which is epitomised by the manager who threw the derby even when it gave us the chance to push above Liverpool and qualify for Europe in the league.

As I said at the start of the season, 8th-10th is where we'll end up.

Pretty much agree with all of that.

 

[Goat]

I think you can add Cahill to the list.

 

[Tubey]

I think you can add Cahill to the list.

Actually, no. It's strange, he used to be like that, but he's lost a lot of that over the last two years. He occasionally looks at the referee when he gets shoved in the back but that's it. What he used to be good at is getting under the oppositions skin.

It's the same with Neville. He shouts etc. but it's at his own players, not the referee. Like Drenthe the other day. He got blatantly fouled but Neville give him loads, instead of at the ref for missing it.

The successful clubs are complete arses with the referee, and we should be the same. It really is a case of "nice guys finish last".

 

[dholliday]

It's the same with Neville. He shouts etc. but it's at his own players, not the referee. Like Drenthe the other day. He got blatantly fouled but Neville give him loads, instead of at the ref for missing it.

Yeah, this was really disappointing. Drenthe should feel he has his captain's support no matter what.

 

[AdamEFC]

I would like to see some of the younger lads given some more games, mainly Barkley.

 

[Tubey]

Yeah, this was really disappointing. Drenthe should feel he has his captain's support no matter what.

That is what separates the elite from the "good". The attitude. The reason Phil was moved on to Everton whilst Gary stayed at United.

Basically, you have to be ruthless in the league. You need to be, well, a t*t. Look at the most successful - Lampard, Terry, Gerrard, Gary Neville, Scholes, Drogba, Suarez, Rooney... to a man, complete b*llends.

Because in terms of talent, with the likes of Baines, Fellaini, Jelavic and Pienaar, we have close to a top four side. But we need the correct mindset.

Talent alone will stop a collapse, and talent alone means that as long as we keep the core squad together we have no chance of relegation (big if that but still!). But to move on to that next level...

 

[chicoazul]

Moyes is a weapon mate.

 

[dholliday]

But to move on to that next level...

Maybe when we discuss future players we have our eye on, we should consider that as a major asset. Can't think of any realistic targets who have that attribute, but a couple of years ago the likes of Bellamy and Joey Barton would have ticked those boxes (both probably a tad past it now, tho').

 

[Brennan]

All the talk's on the cup and has been for two weeks when it's been obsessed about and now it'll be obsessed over again for another 9 days at least until this replay is done and dusted.

Moyes went with a very bold statement on Saturday saying the league wasn't there for us and the cup is the most important thing (he said 'we cant win the league' but the mentality and message was that points were being sacrificed for this FA Cup run). So:

a) how does he get these players back up again for the coming Arsenal and Swansea fixtures

and

b ) if we lose the replay what sort of motivation can the manager expect to get from the players having been told it's all about the cup?

It doesn't bother me finishing 14th rather than 8th from a status point of view, but I'm mindful that it represents about £3M that'll have to either be made up elsewhere by a sale of a player or we just dont by someone in the summer we were planning to.

I suppose what I'm asking is: isn't it about time we started worrying about a complete collapse in the last 10 games?

It's closer to £6m now, near enough £1m per league position. Then you also have to factor in that the lower down the table we finish the less season tickets will be renewed etc.

People seriously underestimate the importance of the league unless it's concerning Europe.