The Guardian's preview of Everton's 2011/12 season

[RFUS]

I think Gueye will be good for us. Beckford was a good signing on a bosman.

I'd also argue that it's not fair to compare current and past buys equally. When Moyes joined we were more desperate for a squad overhaul whereas now he already has the nucleus of a great team.

 

[Phenom]

Is this thread full of pissy girls as well?






Sorry but been dying to use the 'pissy girls' line for the past 24hours.

 

[orchard]

Because solely relying on a youth system to make the grade for a Premier League squad is utterly stupid. For example, we have one of the best youth set ups in the league, yet in recent times only Tony Hibbert and Leon Osman have made the grade alongside Wayne Rooney, with Jack Rodwell and Ross Barkley still unproven. That's three players in nine years during Moyes tenure. If we had adopted the system we are using now in 2002, we could easily be seeing Steven Schumacher, Mark Hughes and Peter Clarke as first teamers!

I get you thanks!
It does assume a constant qualitative output though,maybe we've improved ? The way we look at the moment we may be able to sell, say Rodders for example, to supplement other areas as players perceived to have more potential come through.

 

[Yakubu]

Well here's the problem - we can't unearth gems with absolutely no money. Cahill, Lescott, Jagielka etc. had an initial outlay and have been well worth the money in different ways, but we had the cash, albeit a small amount, to go for them.

We don't now. We haven't went out and bought a player without selling one on for big cash for a long time.

Bilyaletdinov, Heitinga and Distin all came in from the Lescott money. Out of those, Bily has flopped dramatically, Distin has no resell value and Heitinga is probably worth the same amount as when he arrived, maybe an extra £2m on his valuation at best. Overall that wasn't a wise investment from Moyes.

Andy Johnson by and large funded the Fellaini transfer. The last time we actually spent some money was August 2007 on Yakubu, and even that was largely funded by money stowed away from previous sales.

So we haven't bought a "gem" in four years. Our last truly outstanding business was Leighton Baines and Phil Jagielka in 2007 - four years ago. We all refer to how Moyes dug up Cahill etc. but that was 2004/05, six or seven years ago.

There's been no indication we can replace what we have now in two or three years time because we don't have the means to do so and even if we manage to con someone into buying Rodwell or a mega-money bid comes in for Fellaini/Barkley then we're literally pinning our survival in the Premier League on the transfer market skills of a manager who in recent times thought £8-9m on Bily was a great idea. I'm not having a go at Moyes here either, but the fact we expect the bloke to work miracles in the transfer market is indicative of how deluded we are in regards to accepting our league positions in the last few seasons as a sign that "we're safe".

We're far, far from it.




Because solely relying on a youth system to make the grade for a Premier League squad is utterly stupid. For example, we have one of the best youth set ups in the league, yet in recent times only Tony Hibbert and Leon Osman have made the grade alongside Wayne Rooney, with Jack Rodwell and Ross Barkley still unproven. That's three players in nine years during Moyes tenure. If we had adopted the system we are using now in 2002, we could easily be seeing Steven Schumacher, Mark Hughes and Peter Clarke as first teamers!

EDIT: Granted, Coleman was a "gem", but for every Coleman there's six Joao Silvas. You can't expect Moyes to keep us as top half contenders on peanuts forever. It only takes two or three "big money" signings to fail to utterly screw us up.

Come on lad, seriously.....

The talent that has come through at Everton is excellent. We all know the board has alot to answer for on how the business is being ran at present, but this is something that will be addressed over the season through this new union hopefully.

This squad this season has the potential to challenge for Europe again. Lets not get ahead of ourselves with all this relegation in 5 years talk!! Looking forwards to QPR!!

 

[davek]

Because solely relying on a youth system to make the grade for a Premier League squad is utterly stupid. For example, we have one of the best youth set ups in the league, yet in recent times only Tony Hibbert and Leon Osman have made the grade alongside Wayne Rooney, with Jack Rodwell and Ross Barkley still unproven. That's three players in nine years during Moyes tenure. If we had adopted the system we are using now in 2002, we could easily be seeing Steven Schumacher, Mark Hughes and Peter Clarke as first teamers!

You've absolutely nailed that point mate. Rooney is the only true gem to be uncovered; Rodwell is a great prospect; Barkley - it's laughably OTT about this kid (he's got something like, no doubt about it). The importance of the academy production line is way overstated. As you say, our most significant supply line of gems have cost under the £5M mark...but now we're priced out of this market.

Some people are living in the past and/or a fools paradise.

 

[kenada_blue]

Come on lad, seriously.....

The talent that has come through at Everton is excellent. We all know the board has alot to answer for on how the business is being ran at present, but this is something that will be addressed over the season through this new union hopefully.

This squad this season has the potential to challenge for Europe again. Lets not get ahead of ourselves with all this relegation in 5 years talk!! Looking forwards to QPR!!

He'll hardly use them though.

Rodwell has barely featured in any pre-season games and I dont think he'll play him in just the one position...he'll want him as a utility player.

Coleman got lucky due to our poor right wing and did well. If he'd looked "okay" Osman would still be out on the right. And Osman will be chosen on the right side over Barkley any day of the week.

Gueye may get more of a sniff...but I doubt it as he just doesnt seem like Moyes thinks he can start games every week.

The one I think should be given a push is Vellios. He's completely different to anything we have at the club, and he's got good feet too.

The less said about Anichebe the better

 

[Brennan]

He'll hardly use them though.

Rodwell has barely featured in any pre-season games and I dont think he'll play him in just the one position...he'll want him as a utility player.

Coleman got lucky due to our poor right wing and did well. If he'd looked "okay" Osman would still be out on the right. And Osman will be chosen on the right side over Barkley any day of the week.

Gueye may get more of a sniff...but I doubt it as he just doesnt seem like Moyes thinks he can start games every week.

The one I think should be given a push is Vellios. He's completely different to anything we have at the club, and he's got good feet too.

The less said about Anichebe the better

Gueye is awesome FFS.

 

[kenada_blue]

Gueye is awesome FFS.

I like him.

But to say Moyes is going to give all these kids a run is optimistic to be fair.

He'll play the core team till they're running on fumes...injuries kick in, the kids will step up.

 

[Brennan]

I like him.

But to say Moyes is going to give all these kids a run is optimistic to be fair.

He'll play the core team till they're running on fumes...injuries kick in, the kids will step up.

I agree that he won't play Gueye on a regular basis, but i think that's Gueye.

He's shown some real attacking flair and desire to get up the pitch and create chances, something which we're clearly lacking.

 

[Jib in lad]

I'm not actually being depressive about this situation. I'm actually in the camp that accepts the inevitable knowing there's sod all that can be done about it unless we bring in a new chairman/board. Which is something that ain't going to happen in the foreseeable future.

There's no other way but backwards for us now. Without investment we can't break the top four or five, in the short term we'll just fall backwards a bit but remain mid-table makeweights, in the long term the squad will collapse entirely. Footballers aren't stupid, they know a sinking ship when they see it. There's no incentive for a decent footballer to play for Everton, the only players we can attract are up and comers from the continent like Fellaini who use us as a stepping stone and then our only hope financially is fostering these players to come good so we can sell them on to balance the books.

Everton have invested fairly heavily in Finch Farm because the truth is obvious - to have some semblance of squad depth and to have any sort of viable financial system we have to resort to home-grown youth players or cheaply bought foreigners (Dier, Silva, Vellios etc.) who can in the short term fill the bench and perhaps make some sort of minimal impact and then in the long term be sold on for profit.

Unfortunately, that system isn't sustainable in the long run as the core quality of your squad is never replaced and the profile of the club deteriorates.

Five years. At best. You don't even need a crystal ball to see it.

Can someone more erudite than me shoot this man down ffs .