The end of "benefit scrounge nation?"

[Deleted member 28206]

Or the beginning of a new era of potential ruin for the most vunerable amongst us.

£24 per person, is the figure bound about by knocking someone who is examined and deemed to be fit for work by the new scheme on to JSA from Incapacity Benefit.

I'm all for change, and this is indeed change, Im just suspicious that the change is directed at those with no voice

 

[Stoic Ape]

yeah mate, selling drugs and stealing is the next way to survive, not as if there is loads of jobs going, and arent they changing the laws for how much you can get caught with?

 

[Summerskin]

Aren't they looking at monthly (or every fortnight) medical examinations to make sure no-one is blagging?

That, i'm all for.

 

[roydo]

Or the beginning of a new era of potential ruin for the most vunerable amongst us.

£24 per person, is the figure bound about by knocking someone who is examined and deemed to be fit for work by the new scheme on to JSA from Incapacity Benefit.

I'm all for change, and this is indeed change, Im just suspicious that the change is directed at those with no voice

So if you are deemed fit for work, why should you be paid IB??

 

[sirblue57]

Aren't they looking at monthly (or every fortnight) medical examinations to make sure no-one is blagging?

That, i'm all for.

yeah, and check the bank accounts of certain people who dont pay taxes, and companies come to that, we are all in it together after all.

 

[Matt Damon]

Or the beginning of a new era of potential ruin for the most vunerable amongst us.

£24 per person, is the figure bound about by knocking someone who is examined and deemed to be fit for work by the new scheme on to JSA from Incapacity Benefit.

I'm all for change, and this is indeed change, Im just suspicious that the change is directed at those with no voice

The cynic in me KNOWS that the massive rise in disability claimants in the last 13 years under the last lot isn't because the populations suddenly gotten sicker or incapacitated. That flies in the face of more resources being in the NHS and medical developments.


In fact I see regular three people who are on it on their way to the pub most mornings (when I have a very rare day off) who are frankly taking the piss. Out of all of us.

 

[roydo]

yeah, and check the bank accounts of certain people who dont pay taxes, and companies come to that, we are all in it together after all.

Certainly for that as well, but I deal with people on a daily basis that have all manner of disabilities, (blind, deaf/dumb, wheelchair bound from birth, mental issues, drug/drink rehab, Downs, Autistic, etc etc), and they all work, for years. So it drives me nuts when you see people swinging the lead, and we pick up the tab.

 

[Matt Damon]

yeah, and check the bank accounts of certain people who dont pay taxes, and companies come to that, we are all in it together after all.

They do that anyway. VAT inspections if you've ever had one of those or a letter about corporation tax you know they don't mess around at HMRC if you're self employed. Also check out what they do when you're late or don't pay correctly.


Not only that but they do check personal bank accounts also, and if you noticed in the last census them asking alot of questions on your employment history.

The census data can be shared with any government agency in the EU btw.

 

[Tubey]

Aren't they looking at monthly (or every fortnight) medical examinations to make sure no-one is blagging?

That, i'm all for.

Really?

What about those who are genuinely agoraphobic after being sexually assaulted by a Pakistani guy being forced to travel to a medical performed by a Pakistani doctor?

It's a brutal, archaic suggestion that makes no sense. If they were to assess people, then they should be prepared to accept those who pass the criteria to be exempt from these pointless medicals for a long period of time, because these medicals exacerbate real medical conditions due to the stress they put people under.

People pay tax and National Insurance their entire lives, and don't deserve to be presumed liars once they legitimately claim a little help when they need it.

Certainly for that as well, but I deal with people on a daily basis that have all manner of disabilities, (blind, deaf/dumb, wheelchair bound from birth, mental issues, drug/drink rehab, Downs, Autistic, etc etc), and they all work, for years. So it drives me nuts when you see people swinging the lead, and we pick up the tab.

And in my former occupation, I saw countless genuine people victimised by the IB system. Yet that never goes reported. If you do indeed work with the people you describe, then you should realise that whilst some can work and do, others need the help.

This isn't the type of thing you have a "blanket rule" for.

 

[Matt Damon]

Really?

What about those who are genuinely agoraphobic after being sexually assaulted by a Pakistani guy being forced to travel to a medical performed by a Pakistani doctor?

It's a brutal, archaic suggestion that makes no sense. If they were to assess people, then they should be prepared to accept those who pass the criteria to be exempt from these pointless medicals for a long period of time, because these medicals exacerbate real medical conditions due to the stress they put people under.

People pay tax and National Insurance their entire lives, and don't deserve to be presumed liars once they legitimately claim a little help when they need it.

What the hell are you going on about there?

And you should blame the benefit cheats (criminals) for those tests being needed.

Freeloaders OUT!

 

[Tubey]

What the hell are you going on about there?

A real life scenario I have encountered in my past job mate.

Tried to get a home visit medical, wasn't allowed. Went the medical, shaking like a leaf, and was allocated a Pakistani doctor, promptly passed out and regressed a good year or two in progressing with her condition.

Just an example that the stereotype of "scrounging liars" doesn't apply to all, so you can't have a "one rule fits all" solution to the benefits system.

 

[Matt Damon]

A real life scenario I have encountered in my past job mate.

Tried to get a home visit medical, wasn't allowed. Went the medical, shaking like a leaf, and was allocated a Pakistani doctor, promptly passed out and regressed a good year or two in progressing with her condition.

Just an example that the stereotype of "scrounging liars" doesn't apply to all, so you can't have a "one rule fits all" solution to the benefits system.

That doesn't mean that every single person required to attend an assessment will be.

That's hysterical OTT reasoning if ever I have seen.



And another thing. I for one work all the hours Gods sends whilst I know of three on these benefits when they're in the pub most days. Its a piss take and something the country can't afford.

And it's those piss takers that are taking advantage of a "one rule fits all" benefits system.

 

[Matt Damon]

People pay tax and National Insurance their entire lives, and don't deserve to be presumed liars once they legitimately claim a little help when they need it.

I've claimed JSA for 6 months. All the rest of the time I've worked. Because I don't expect anyone else to keep me.


Its the ones who won't work because they're lazy that need kicking off benefits that are greater in size than most people earn in wages through work.

IB is being abused by those who aren't incapacitated. Thats a fact. And it pisses me off.

Oh and I've had two sick days in three years.

 

[Tubey]

That doesn't mean that every single person required to attend an assessment will be.

That's hysterical OTT reasoning if ever I have seen.



And another thing. I for one work all the hours Gods sends whilst I know of three on these benefits when they're in the pub most days. Its a piss take and something the country can't afford.

And it's those piss takers that are taking advantage of a "one rule fits all" benefits system.

Is it hell!

That's one example. I could provide... what... fifty, sixty off the top of my head.

You're taking your very selective personal experience of knowing "three people in a pub" and applying it to everyone. I've worked extensively in and around this system and, yes, there's widespread fraud to say the least, but that doesn't mean you batter every single person with the same rod to find a solution.

I'm all for the medicals occurring - as long as there is a system in place to exempt the genuine from repeated insults by this horrible system.

Getting rid of 10 fraudsters at the cost of ruining the life of 1 genuine case isn't worth it to me. Not by a long shot. And I absolute despise benefit fraudsters, so it's not like I'm a soft touch.

I've seen both sides of it mate, you haven't.

I've claimed JSA for 6 months. All the rest of the time I've worked. Because I don't expect anyone else to keep me.


Its the ones who won't work because they're lazy that need kicking off benefits that are greater in size than most people earn in wages through work.

IB is being abused by those who aren't incapacitated. Thats a fact.

Not denying that. The solution proffered by the Tories however is ridiculous and an insult to genuine cases.

 

[roydo]

A real life scenario I have encountered in my past job mate.

Tried to get a home visit medical, wasn't allowed. Went the medical, shaking like a leaf, and was allocated a Pakistani doctor, promptly passed out and regressed a good year or two in progressing with her condition.

Just an example that the stereotype of "scrounging liars" doesn't apply to all, so you can't have a "one rule fits all" solution to the benefits system.

Totally agree, a blanket solution does not exist. I do deal with the sort of clients I described; the point I was making, that I stand by, is that that the IB system over the years has become abused. Basically, it appears to me, that in the past, if you couldnt be arsed to work, it was all to easy to use IB as an excuse. And my professional experience has concluded that it happens. Understand your issue with the home visit. Had a similar situation with a client. Like you say, no one outside the "industry", for want of a better word, understands.