the bottom line

[sirblue57]

although Ba was not one of Moyes major targets, it once again asks questions about how everton go about the business of transfers. its not as if we have the luxury of options within the market, our lack of finance is well known. having to sell to buy is anther restriction to deal with, it would be preferable to be able to aquire first, then balance the books before the end of the window. but we seem to be unable to consider this an option either. at some point the problems within the club must be dealt with, i don't want this to be an anti BK/board thread. but the total lack of finances is the problem of the board, its not a recent pnenomonum. indeed, we have been steadily getting into a worse state year on year. and i know other clubs have problems, but for once i would like to focus on OUR clubs prediciment.
if we are to move forward as a club these issues have to be addressed, yet little seems to be happening, and when the club try to do something ,(the annexxe, bellefield etc) we seem to be unable to progress without hitting obstacles, this cannot be blamed purely on bad luck, poor planning HAS to be in there as well, if only for the sheer amount of obstacles we seem to find. but hey, this is everton, when did we ever do it the easy way.

 

[ChicagoToffee]

Not sure I'm following this one - no offense.

Moyes was interested but the asking price was too high especially for a player of that caliber. Impossible for Moyes to go back to the locker room to try to explain to Arteta or Fellaini why Ba should be paid more.

I don't think Moyes would hesitate to upset the salary structure if he brought in a player on high wages that was worth every penny. Not anything new that Moyes doesn't ever have much, if anything, to spend. He's shrewd and isn't going to get jacked around by some Senegalese douchebag.

Personally, I'd rather sell before buying than buying before selling. It's like a credit card, mate. If you can't pay off what you charge in the same month (festivities, sins and holidays obviously excluded), don't charge it. If Moyes bought before selling, he'd be screwed. Maybe not this year but come next year when Everton are bleeding out from a massive wage bill, the garage sale starts. People have garage sales mostly because they realize they've got too much crap in their house and figure if somebody will give me $5 for this $50 jacket I bought 2 years ago and have worn once, everybody wins. Maybe.

Being forced to sell the things you don't want to sell (i.e. Baines, Rodwell, Jagielka) because you have no choice is a bad position all the way around. Why even make that scenario possible?

Sometimes you just gotta make do.

 

[sirblue57]

what depresses me is this, you have matt giving financial lectures on other clubs finances, and very accurate they may be. but most of these clubs have,to a point, been spending much more than us.albeit, without actually achieving more. just ONCE, i would like to see everton complete a transfer without any drama, and,god willing, actually have a budget in place for when players become available. because having to sell first is always a risky position. what if you can't sell? what if you don't get the money you wanted? etc etc.its this lack of FORWARD thinking that has us at a disadvantage every season. and nothing will change in the forseeable future, despite the new financial regulations matt goes on about. its still a long way back for us with korky and dan leading the way.

 

[Matt Damon]

what depresses me is this, you have matt giving financial lectures on other clubs finances, and very accurate they may be. but most of these clubs have,to a point, been spending much more than us.albeit, without actually achieving more. just ONCE, i would like to see everton complete a transfer without any drama, and,god willing, actually have a budget in place for when players become available. because having to sell first is always a risky position. what if you can't sell? what if you don't get the money you wanted? etc etc.its this lack of FORWARD thinking that has us at a disadvantage every season. and nothing will change in the forseeable future, despite the new financial regulations matt goes on about. its still a long way back for us with korky and dan leading the way.

Didn't Newcastle sell a player for £35million in January?

Its easy to sign players if you've just sold a load off.

Its even easier to cave in and break a wage structure too.

Just saying like.

 

[sirblue57]

i know, its still depressing that we can't attract players over that shower of deluded cranks though.

 

[Extratime]

Yeah but I think Ba is a bit deluded with his wage demands. Ba is going to a club that looks to lose it's core after selling off Nolan. It's all about the money. I'm telling you, one knock on those knees this upcoming season and we'll be happy we didn't sign him.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Think about the motivations here. Our motivation will be to get the player for as cheap as possible. Ba wants to go to a club for as much money as he can get.

It seems reasonable to expect we'll have a budget in mind for his wages, based on a combination of his value in the marketplace and the finances we have. If someone is in the market that has either a) more money than us, or b) less understanding of his market value, then I see nothing wrong in saying that this one just isn't for us.

You only have to go back through previous transfer windows to see a litany of players who we have lost out on when clubs with little self control enter the bidding. I can't think of many of those however that we have truely missed. Surely as fans of this great club of ours we want players to be here because they see much more from both the club and ourselves as fans than merely a way to pick up huge bucks?

Whilst I appreciate that loyalty is a rare thing in football these days, I equally believe wholeheartedly that a club such as ourselves is better off without mercenaries such as Ba.

 

[BlueLlama]

The last thing we need is a striker on huge wages being injured all the time. He has serious knee problems and while he looks a real talent he probably isn't worth £55, 000 a week + stupid signing on fee.

It's a pity but move on.

 

[RFUS]

Think about the motivations here. Our motivation will be to get the player for as cheap as possible. Ba wants to go to a club for as much money as he can get.

It seems reasonable to expect we'll have a budget in mind for his wages, based on a combination of his value in the marketplace and the finances we have. If someone is in the market that has either a) more money than us, or b) less understanding of his market value, then I see nothing wrong in saying that this one just isn't for us.

You only have to go back through previous transfer windows to see a litany of players who we have lost out on when clubs with little self control enter the bidding. I can't think of many of those however that we have truely missed. Surely as fans of this great club of ours we want players to be here because they see much more from both the club and ourselves as fans than merely a way to pick up huge bucks?

Whilst I appreciate that loyalty is a rare thing in football these days, I equally believe wholeheartedly that a club such as ourselves is better off without mercenaries such as Ba.

You make a great argument, as ever, Bruce. But that word is driving me insane.

Since when does wanting the best deal available make you a mercenary? We may be fans of football, but it is still a job. Who on earth would turn down 40% extra in wages?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Depends what you get into the game for in my opinion. In nearly all practical terms the difference between 50k a week and 75k a week are minimal. You get to a point where there's a limit to how much you can spend.

I appreciate it's easy for me to sit here and say, but were I a footballer I would rather look back on my career and reflect on what I'd achieved as a player than the amount of flash cars I'd purchased.

There have been a lot of studies showing money is only really a motivating factor when you don't have an awful lot of it. Paying a pro footballer an extra 20k a week isn't going to make him try harder. Therefore I feel it is justified to say that Ba has chosen to go to Newcastle purely for the money as I don't believe for one minute that he thinks they are a better club than us with a higher chance of success next year. He'll be another in a long line of expensive players that go to Newcastle and go sour.

 

[sirblue57]

Depends what you get into the game for in my opinion. In nearly all practical terms the difference between 50k a week and 75k a week are minimal. You get to a point where there's a limit to how much you can spend.

I appreciate it's easy for me to sit here and say, but were I a footballer I would rather look back on my career and reflect on what I'd achieved as a player than the amount of flash cars I'd purchased.

There have been a lot of studies showing money is only really a motivating factor when you don't have an awful lot of it. Paying a pro footballer an extra 20k a week isn't going to make him try harder. Therefore I feel it is justified to say that Ba has chosen to go to Newcastle purely for the money as I don't believe for one minute that he thinks they are a better club than us with a higher chance of success next year. He'll be another in a long line of expensive players that go to Newcastle and go sour.

i agree, yet we just cannot attract players without money being involved, we do not have the pulling power.

 

[RFUS]

Depends what you get into the game for in my opinion. In nearly all practical terms the difference between 50k a week and 75k a week are minimal. You get to a point where there's a limit to how much you can spend.

I appreciate it's easy for me to sit here and say, but were I a footballer I would rather look back on my career and reflect on what I'd achieved as a player than the amount of flash cars I'd purchased.

There have been a lot of studies showing money is only really a motivating factor when you don't have an awful lot of it. Paying a pro footballer an extra 20k a week isn't going to make him try harder. Therefore I feel it is justified to say that Ba has chosen to go to Newcastle purely for the money as I don't believe for one minute that he thinks they are a better club than us with a higher chance of success next year. He'll be another in a long line of expensive players that go to Newcastle and go sour.

That's just a really naive view, mate. And I've never had to say that about one of your opinions before.

£50K a week = £2.6 million a year
£75K a week = £3.9 million a year

Not including the likely increased bonuses he's getting there. Fine, if we were Arsenal, United or something, then the difference in ambition would present the kind of decision for him which would give some merit to claims of him being a "mercenary" upon choosing Newcastle. But our standing and theirs is a lot closer than we'd like to believe. In other words, we're not in Europe and we're not likely to be lifting any trophies. Do you think an extra few league places is enough to convince someone to turn down an exta £1.3 million a year?

Of course Ba will know we're a better club, but he might only have another 3 or 4 years at the top end of the game. I can't blame him for wanting the more lucrative deal. I would do exactly the same.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

i agree, yet we just cannot attract players without money being involved, we do not have the pulling power.

Of course, if it was a choice between going to us or Man Utd with the same wages, probably 99% would choose United over us. Maybe with people like Ba they think that:

a) neither us or Newcastle will win anything so they might as well make as much cash as possible
b) they're not good enough to play for any really top team, so again, they may as well make as much as possible

 

[Bruce Wayne]

That's just a really naive view, mate. And I've never had to say that about one of your opinions before.

£50K a week = £2.6 million a year
£75K a week = £3.9 million a year

Not including the likely increased bonuses he's getting there. Fine, if we were Arsenal, United or something, then the difference in ambition would present the kind of decision for him which would give some merit to claims of him being a "mercenary" upon choosing Newcastle. But our standing and theirs is a lot closer than we'd like to believe. In other words, we're not in Europe and we're not likely to be lifting any trophies. Do you think an extra few league places is enough to convince someone to turn down an exta £1.3 million a year?

Of course Ba will know we're a better club, but he might only have another 3 or 4 years at the top end of the game. I can't blame him for wanting the more lucrative deal. I would do exactly the same.

Think I kinda answered that in the previous one (without having read it). I still believe though that if you're on £2.6m a year you can buy most of the things you need in life and still have plenty left for retirement purposes should you wish to never lift a finger for the rest of your life. But yes, maybe that is a wee bit naive.

 

[RFUS]

Think I kinda answered that in the previous one (without having read it). I still believe though that if you're on £2.6m a year you can buy most of the things you need in life and still have plenty left for retirement purposes should you wish to never lift a finger for the rest of your life. But yes, maybe that is a wee bit naive.

Well you're quite right. £2.6 mill a year for 3-5 years would set you up for life. And I'd imagine that he's already got a very healthy bank balance.

But we don't offer enough more than Newcastle to make up for £1.3 million a year. You'd have to be an ardent fan of either Everton or Sunderland to pick our offer overs theirs.