The attack on George Galloway

[dholliday]

The issue is that the Palestinians have never accepted Israel as a state - I can see why, totally, but the fact is it's there and pretending its' not and having the goal of blowing it off the map is ridiculous, a complete fantasy that is causing their own people more harm than good and will continue to do so.

A complete fantasy is right, but it's your fantasy. This is a popular myth, as @Blue 1 has explained.


It's more than a popular myth, it's dangerous propaganda which fuels Western defence of Israel's atrocities.

It's like how Ahmadinejad never said Israel should be wiped out of existence, he and the Ayatollah were musing on how (in their view) Israel is an unnatural country, that it won't survive very long as its on the verge of collapse, and that it would do Jerusalem the world of good if Israel was consigned to history. They were talking in context of the Shah's collapse, and Soviet Union's collapse.

Western media spun this to make us believe Iran had an actual policy to destroy Israel, when all they mused was that they believe it will destroy itself in time.

Not that I'm a fan of Iran, or any other Muslim country. I personally believe secular states with equal rights for all are an absolute must and nations not going in for this are inherently damaged. But I will stick up for them when they're being done wrong to.

 

[Clint Planet]

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.610687

My plea to the people of Israel: Liberate yourselves by liberating Palestine

Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu, in an exclusive article for Haaretz, calls for a global boycott of Israel and urges Israelis and Palestinians to look beyond their leaders for a sustainable solution to the crisis in the Holy Land.

(Published exclusively in an Israeli newspaper)

 

[Wat Tyler]

He's frequently said he has no issue with Jews whatsoever; he has a problem with the state of Israel. That does not make him a racist, it simply means he has a problem with the state of Israel. He applauds Jews who take a stance on Israel - he is not anti-Semitic in the slightest.

I honestly think that if Hamas was overthrown and a moderate government was in place free of extremism, then Israel would have no cause to wage war or bomb the Palestinians. The issue is that the Palestinians have never accepted Israel as a state - I can see why, totally, but the fact is it's there and pretending its' not and having the goal of blowing it off the map is ridiculous, a complete fantasy that is causing their own people more harm than good and will continue to do so.

Israel being heavy handed against a peaceful neighbouring nation is a different proposition to what we have now - people like to claim the Palestinians are helpless victims of needless aggression and ignore the inherent hatred towards Israel by their neighbours (whether deserved or not) and incessant rocket fire they take into what they believe to be a sovereign state. What is Israel meant to do - disable the Iron Dome, put away the advanced weaponry and make it an even fight? Why would they?

So, in short, it's a war Hamas cannot win, so it's in the best interest of their people to look into a more sustainable solution that pot-shotting rockets then taking a beating for it. If Israel had no aggressor, then they have no international support to land grab and "secure" their borders, and the impetus on a practical two state solution becomes stronger.

But I won't see it in my lifetime.

It's the warmongering Netanyahu and his cabinet, enforcing Israeli policy for decades that are the real issue. Israel has no intention of granting the Palestinians statehood, as seen here...


http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/netanyahu-palestinian-state.html

 

[Billy Dean]

Hamas were elected. And israel responded by attacking gaza and arresting hamas members including members of parliment.

And the west put sanctions on hamas, which meant they withdraw all international aid to palestine until hamas agreed to condemn anti israeli violence and recognise israel as a state, which hamas refused to do.

Fatah supporters, who had lost the election, on the fear that a hamas run state would end any chance of peace with israel and ecomonic meltdown tried to assassinate the hamas leader which resulted in a civil war between hamas and fatah.

The result was both main parties set up their own government which refused to recognise the authority of the other.

That isn't an example of a working democracy. It just isn't. And you can blame the western sanctions/israeli miltary action for it as much as you like it doesn't change the fact that ultimately israel is the only working democracy in the region.

True, but it's far from unreasonable to argue that the West's meddling and support for various despots and dictators in the region is a significant obstacle for states developing any kind of democracy let alone a functioning one.

 

[Allezfan]

True, but it's far from unreasonable to argue that the West's meddling and support for various despots and dictators in the region is a significant obstacle for states developing any kind of democracy let alone a functioning one.

I agree there.

I also think that the will for democracy isn't there in the people to the extent that some hope. The arab spring has been notable for that, imo.

 

[Wat Tyler]

http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2014/09/12/omar-hamilton/after-the-ceasefire-2/

 

[Clint Planet]

Worth copying and pasting from that article:

On 26 August a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas was agreed, bringing a fragile end to a war that killed 2150 Palestinians (mostly civilians) and 73 Israelis (mostly soldiers). Since then Hamas has not fired a single rocket, attacked an Israeli target, or done anything to break the terms of the ceasefire. Israel has done the following:

1. Annexed another 1500 acres of West Bank land
2. Seized $56 million of PA tax revenue
3. Not lifted the illegal blockade (as required by the ceasefire)
4. Broken the ceasefire by firing at fishermen on four separate occasions
5. Detained six fishermen
6. Killed a 22-year-old, Issa al Qatari, a week before his wedding
7. Killed 16-year-old Mohammed Sinokrot with a rubber bullet to the head
8. Tortured a prisoner to the point of hospitalisation
9. Refused 13 members of the European Parliament entry into Gaza
10. Detained at least 127 people across the West Bank, including a seven-year-old boy in Hebron and two children, aged seven and eight, taken from the courtyard of their house in Silwad – and tear-gassed their mother
11. Continued to hold 33 members of the Palestinian Legislative Council in prison
12. Continued to hold 500 prisoners in administrative detention without charge or trial
13. Destroyed a dairy factory in Hebron whose profits supported an orphanage
15. Destroyed a family home in Silwan, making five children homeless
16. Destroyed a house in Jerusalem where aid supplies en route to Gaza were being stored
17. Destroyed a well near Hebron
18. Set fire to an olive grove near Hebron
19. Raided a health centre and a nursery school in Nablus, causing extensive damage
20. Destroyed a swathe of farmland in Rafah by driving tanks over it
21. Ordered the dismantling of a small monument in Jerusalem to Mohamed Abu Khdeir, murdered in July by an Israeli lynch mob
22. Continued building a vast tunnel network under Jerusalem
23. Stormed the al Aqsa mosque compound with a group of far right settlers
24. Assisted hundreds of settlers in storming Joseph’s Tomb in Nablus
25. Prevented students from entering al Quds University, firing stun grenades and rubber bullets at those who tried to go in
26. Earned unknown millions on reconstruction materials for Gaza, where 100,000 people need their destroyed homes rebuilt. The total bill is estimated at $7.8 billion


And yet still some people defend and support Israel in all of this.

 

[Toffeelover]

Worth copying and pasting from that article:

On 26 August a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas was agreed, bringing a fragile end to a war that killed 2150 Palestinians (mostly civilians) and 73 Israelis (mostly soldiers). Since then Hamas has not fired a single rocket, attacked an Israeli target, or done anything to break the terms of the ceasefire. Israel has done the following:

1. Annexed another 1500 acres of West Bank land
2. Seized $56 million of PA tax revenue
3. Not lifted the illegal blockade (as required by the ceasefire)
4. Broken the ceasefire by firing at fishermen on four separate occasions
5. Detained six fishermen
6. Killed a 22-year-old, Issa al Qatari, a week before his wedding
7. Killed 16-year-old Mohammed Sinokrot with a rubber bullet to the head
8. Tortured a prisoner to the point of hospitalisation
9. Refused 13 members of the European Parliament entry into Gaza
10. Detained at least 127 people across the West Bank, including a seven-year-old boy in Hebron and two children, aged seven and eight, taken from the courtyard of their house in Silwad – and tear-gassed their mother
11. Continued to hold 33 members of the Palestinian Legislative Council in prison
12. Continued to hold 500 prisoners in administrative detention without charge or trial
13. Destroyed a dairy factory in Hebron whose profits supported an orphanage
15. Destroyed a family home in Silwan, making five children homeless
16. Destroyed a house in Jerusalem where aid supplies en route to Gaza were being stored
17. Destroyed a well near Hebron
18. Set fire to an olive grove near Hebron
19. Raided a health centre and a nursery school in Nablus, causing extensive damage
20. Destroyed a swathe of farmland in Rafah by driving tanks over it
21. Ordered the dismantling of a small monument in Jerusalem to Mohamed Abu Khdeir, murdered in July by an Israeli lynch mob
22. Continued building a vast tunnel network under Jerusalem
23. Stormed the al Aqsa mosque compound with a group of far right settlers
24. Assisted hundreds of settlers in storming Joseph’s Tomb in Nablus
25. Prevented students from entering al Quds University, firing stun grenades and rubber bullets at those who tried to go in
26. Earned unknown millions on reconstruction materials for Gaza, where 100,000 people need their destroyed homes rebuilt. The total bill is estimated at $7.8 billion


And yet still some people defend and support Israel in all of this.

I have for a while now had little sympathy or feeling for Israel. All the antagonism could have been avoided if the Israelis had entered into meaningful talks rather than how much land could they steal and belittle a people.

 

[Clint Planet]

I have for a while now had little sympathy or feeling for Israel. All the antagonism could have been avoided if the Israelis had entered into meaningful talks rather than how much land could they steal and belittle a people.

Make no mistake, his whole conflict is about a prolonged, cynical land-grab in violation of an original agreement and at the expense of an entire indiginous people. All the rest is mere detail.

 

[Toffeelover]

Make no mistake, his whole conflict is about a prolonged, cynical land-grab in violation of an original agreement and at the expense of an entire indiginous people. All the rest is mere detail.

If the damned USA and some vested interest here in Europe said enough is enough then the Israelis would have had to note and rein their ambitions in.Prinarily it is down to the States who sit idly by.