The 11+

Dell Boy · August 11, 2014

Has anyone here been through this themselves or have got kids doing it?

My eldest has hers in just under a month. She was only 10 last month. Her whole school year has been focused on this two hour exam to come. It's crazy.

A two hour exam at that age (something like 150 questions) to have a big impact on a kids life.

Where we live the local grammar schools are in the top 20 in the country. The competition is insane with stories of kids being tutored since the age of 6!

If she doesn't get in the choice is the nearest comp where last year only 2% of kids got 5 GCSEs in maths, English, science, language and history/geography or a private school at c£12k pa (and goes up every year).

We've been doing two hours study each weekend for last year but there comes a point where you just think what the hells going on in this world. Aged 10 I don't think I had ever sat even a classroom test before.

Any wise words most appreciated!

Azzurri · August 11, 2014

I don't even know if the 11+ is still used in England. A few schools have their own private entrance exam, is this basically the same thing?

EDIT: I meant Liverpool, not England.

Dell Boy · August 11, 2014

For non UK posters the 11+ was a means of selective screening for kids maybe 30+ years ago with the idea each decent sized town would have a single top school (often one for each sex) to draw in. Kids and concentrate resources. Most of the country abolished the system but a few areas have kept it going

Charlie Bigtime · August 11, 2014

My sister did an 11+ and there was also a 16+ in some subjects when she was in 4th year seniors. Both were scrapped by the time I reached the respective ages and were just SAT's and GCSE's.

dholliday · August 11, 2014

Dell Boy said:
She was only 10 last month. Her whole school year has been focused on this two hour exam to come. It's crazy.

A two hour exam at that age (something like 150 questions) to have a big impact on a kids life.

Got no wise words, sorry. Just agree it's insane and counter-productive to a child's development (whether they pass or fail...these tests are largely just memory tests anyway).

Good luck :cheers:

Pienaar's gloves · August 11, 2014

11+ was scrapped donkeys years ago. I was 11 in 2005 and it was well gone by then. I'm pretty sure the National Curriculum ruled it out?

Dell Boy · August 11, 2014

Pienaar's gloves said:
11+ was scrapped donkeys years ago. I was 11 in 2005 and it was well gone by then. I'm pretty sure the National Curriculum ruled it out?

In most places yes that's right. And for good reason too. But in Kent, parts of Surrey and Warwickshire where we are its still in place. The grammar schools on offer are incredible but the downside is massive.

In all seriousness we've actively tried to explain to my daughter options if she's doesn't get in to try and take the sting out of it. We went on a family holiday at start of summer holidays and have weekends away planned every weekend to give her a break (she's got a season ticket with me for the arsenal and Chelsea's games for example)

Pienaar's gloves · August 11, 2014

Dell Boy said:
In most places yes that's right. And for good reason too. But in Kent, parts of Surrey and Warwickshire where we are its still in place. The grammar schools on offer are incredible but the downside is massive.

In all seriousness we've actively tried to explain to my daughter options if she's doesn't get in to try and take the sting out of it. We went on a family holiday at start of summer holidays and have weekends away planned every weekend to give her a break (she's got a season ticket with me for the arsenal and Chelsea's games for example)

Bad that like. I hope she does well mate. I went to school in North Sefton and you were guaranteed a spot at a good high school. That's how it should be.

edge · August 11, 2014

Didnt know this was still going on , bloody joke of a thing, I took mine in a corridor on my own called into school with the flu ,hence being in the corridor,un surprisingly failed after two days of halucinating with fever pri to it.
Hope she does well mate really do, terrible pressure on a youngster

paulbefc · August 11, 2014

It's a tough one this. I did it and whilst I think it puts a lot of pressure on kids (I admit I'd have been scarred for a long time had I failed as my family all passed), I'm grateful that I got into a good school as a result. The grammar school I went to is arguably very much superior school to the local comps (for me as a pupil). Of course it doesn't necessarily mean I am more intelligent and educated than those who didn't do the exam, nor that my education has been much better - I now study at uni alongside some of the kids who went to the very comps I've just mentioned - it was simply just right for me.

As much as I don't like to see kids forced into it, I hate to see teachers and parents raging against it and discouraging them. My primary school teachers constantly tried to drum into us how pointless it was and how grammar schools are a sham and for snobs. Turned out that its biggest detractors in the school had failed it and as fair as some of the points they were making were, I always got the impression they were a bit bitter. Had I followed their advice I don't think I'd have got as much from high school as I did. I'd hate to think they have discouraged similar children from having a crack at it since.

Sapie88 · August 11, 2014

I have one GCSE a B in Maths. I'm still a genius though.

Dell Boy · August 11, 2014

@paulbefc

Thanks for your reply. Not raging at home about this - we're embracing it fully and trying to give all possible support. More I don't think the system itself is right as it just seems crazy to focus such attention on a two hour window in a 10 year olds life!

peteblue · August 11, 2014

Passed mine 50 years ago. It got me into a great College and opened up another world tbh.......I don't remember much of the exams just my dad reading the letter. It didn't actually say that you had passed just that you would be more suitable to be at the following Grammar School......I remember that most of my mates passed but there was one that didn't and it hit him really badly..........

The Cowboy · August 11, 2014

All the Grammars round here are single sex. Are all grammar schools single sex? Anyway, I don't think I want my daughter to go to a single sex school, plus the local comp is meant to be excellent so hopefully she'll get in there.

paulbefc · August 11, 2014

Dell Boy said:
@paulbefc

Thanks for your reply. Not raging at home about this - we're embracing it fully and trying to give all possible support. More I don't think the system itself is right as it just seems crazy to focus such attention on a two hour window in a 10 year olds life!

I do feel quite passionately on the subject as I've been through it and can clearly see both sides of the argument. On the one hand I think I've the kind of personality who would have taken failing extremely hard, especially as my whole family passed. On the other hand, I believe I've benefited greatly from it. So, whilst I think failing would have hurt and I'd never want any friend or family to have to go through that (and certainly not at the tender age of 10/11), I would want to recommend the very best for them, which in my experience is grammar school education. Being surrounded by slightly higher achieving pupils than generally found in comps and being pushed that little harder was exactly what I needed as I had a tendency to coast along when not pushed.

I'm not a parent (nor am I "wise"!) and wouldn't dream of trying to give advice on the subject, but I think my parents handled it just about as well as you can in simply telling me it was all going to be alright either way whenever I got stressed or worried. It's not easy, but for the record, I think you're doing the right (an ace) thing. Best of luck to your daughter mate.