SAS Who Dares Wins

[Simon Buttle]

He'll be alluding to E4A (E-Four-Alpha) which was mainly made up of RUC alongside some detachments from signals for intercepts and other related stuff.

How would they get firearms out of barracks then without authorisation? that's the bit i don't understand

 

[BNJ1878]

Hey mate, i have been reading through that book again, The Operators by James Rennie about 14 Company, and id forgotten how interesting it was. Some things i have noted so far. It says 14 Company was founded in 1974 and that during that time recruits were trained by the SAS (like you said) but that by the 80's the Det had it's own specialist training officers most of whom were also active on the ground at certain times in NI. It also says that by this time a number of SAS/SBS were also going through the selection process so that they could learn the specialist techniques of the Det but they would go back to their units as they would never be a part of the Det in the field. Rennie also mentions that the pay was more than SAS/SBS but does'nt actually say what it was due to the nature of the work. It mentions that the Det had access to equipment that the SAS/SBS could only dream about and there was an individual working for them who basically spent all year going around the world buying up the latest spy gear and new weapons that came up on the market.
The bit i thought would interest you and @PhilM is towards the end of the book when for about 10 pages he talks about what happened at that IRA funeral you mentioned. Basically he says that the 2 individuals involved were members of the RUC intel unit, and that one of them (who was known for being a bit wayward) decided (unauthorised) to take a newbie soldier round the most dangerous esates showing him 'the ropes' I guess the question from this is that if it was unauthorised then, how did they get their firearms signed out? By the time this incident happened Rennie was an officer and he says he watched it unfold from the control room and that he seriously thought about quiting there and then. It's a great read and has a bit of humour thrown in as it's quite obvious that Rennie fancied one of the female instuctors despite having a girlfriend, and he clearly turns into a little boy everytime he is in her company, you should have a look for it.

Quite right what is said about regular special forces rotating through "the det." it became clear that 14th int had polished a lot of the skills in surveillance and Intel gathering to a far higher level of expertise that their original instructors.
Those initially selected from SAS/SBS to attach themselves to the det were initially sceptical of the benefit as they wouldn't learn anything new. Most would admit in their own autobiographies that it was really useful and they excel at what they did in Northern Island.

Another OK read is "Fishers of Men" about a guy who went through det selection, passed but on the ground it didn't really work out. Rather than lose the skills he joined an even smaller group who's role it was to identify potential candidates with republican links into informers. The ending fizzles out but it has some interesting enough chapters.

 

[jaycee]

Think theres a few people in here mates with Kenny Dalglish senior

 

[Simon Buttle]

Quite right what is said about regular special forces rotating through "the det." it became clear that 14th int had polished a lot of the skills in surveillance and Intel gathering to a far higher level of expertise that their original instructors.
Those initially selected from SAS/SBS to attach themselves to the det were initially sceptical of the benefit as they wouldn't learn anything new.

Some of the SAS guys who went through the selection process with Rennie ended up as part of the dedicated 22 Troop that was in NI supporting the Det, they just were not allowed to serve as part of the Det for whatever reason. Interesting that throughout the training/selection process each candidate was only known by a number (Prisoner style) Rennie was no37 but he says that you can always tell what regiment each person is from by the way they speak and act, they were not allowed to ask about each others backgrounds, if they did they would be thrown off the course!

 

[Del-boy]

I recommend a book called The Killing Zone by Harry Mccallion.
He served in the RUC during the troubles in Ireland with the IRA. Then went into the South African Special forces before joining the SAS. I found it to be very interesting and a good read, particularly around the IRA.
I recall he said the toughests part of special forces training was training in the jungle. Dropped into it, think it was round Malaysia but might be mistaken and left to fend for yourself for weeks. Would drive most men insane.

After the special forces he trained to be a solicitor and ended up being a QC with chambers in Liverpool.

 

[Zatara]

Some of the SAS guys who went through the selection process with Rennie ended up as part of the dedicated 22 Troop that was in NI supporting the Det, they just were not allowed to serve as part of the Det for whatever reason. Interesting that throughout the training/selection process each candidate was only known by a number (Prisoner style) Rennie was no37 but he says that you can always tell what regiment each person is from by the way they speak and act, they were not allowed to ask about each others backgrounds, if they did they would be thrown off the course!

I wonder how they could tell from speech and behaviour...

 

[roydo]

I wonder how they could tell from speech and behaviour...

Cos over time, soldiers in a particular regiment will adopt the language/slang, and habits peculiar to that regiment. Hence the phrase, Regimented Behaviour. There will always be exceptions, but even so, most experienced soldiers would be able to hazard a decent guess which regiment another experienced lad served in.

And you can spot what service (Navy, RAF or Army) someone is with a mile off.

 

[PhilM]

How would they get firearms out of barracks then without authorisation? that's the bit i don't understand

I can't talk about the two individuals yet different roles in the provide ultimately required different levels of protection, and with that came different levels of scrutiny.

For example, someone with access to a Q-Car wouldn't have the same level of scrutiny as a squaddie on an overt patrol from the likes of XMG or Bessbrook etc.

So, I would be incredibly surprised if they had removed the firearms without authorisation but rather their access to them may have been more regular and/or lax.

Cos over time, soldiers in a particular regiment will adopt the language/slang, and habits peculiar to that regiment. Hence the phrase, Regimented Behaviour. There will always be exceptions, but even so, most experienced soldiers would be able to hazard a decent guess which regiment another experienced lad served in.

And you can spot what service (Navy, RAF or Army) someone is with a mile off.

This with bells on. Common every day slang, how you address an officer and simple replies which are expected can be different depending on your cap badge.

For example, it was typical behaviour for a Grenadier to never say yes as it was defunct: they never said no. Instead, inflections showed approval or dissaporval.

That's without looking at appearance - think of a typical guardsman. That said, the SAS typically had a certain style of moustache in the late 70s and 80s.

 

[Simon Buttle]

I can't talk about the two individuals yet different roles in the provide ultimately required different levels of protection, and with that came different levels of scrutiny.

For example, someone with access to a Q-Car wouldn't have the same level of scrutiny as a squaddie on an overt patrol from the likes of XMG or Bessbrook etc.

So, I would be incredibly surprised if they had removed the firearms without authorisation but rather their access to them may have been more regular and/or lax.


This with bells on. Common every day slang, how you address an officer and simple replies which are expected can be different depending on your cap badge.

That's without looking at apperance - think of a typical guardsman. That said, the SAS typically had a certain style of moustache in the late 70s and 80s.

Yeah despite there being a good few pages in the book about the funeral incident, it does not go into any of the serious details about it (for obvious reasons i guess) Rennie just outlines the whole thing about how it went down as he watched it from the control room and about how he felt about it. Also the moustache thing gets mentioned a lot and he says there were loads of times that 22 Troop turned up to help them with stuff looking like a bunch of Mexican gringo's lol

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Another fine read is the book entitled
“White Dragon the Royal Welch Fusiliers in Bosnia”.

It’s a tale that few know about but in summary whilst deployed to Gorazde as peacekeepers during the Bosnian war 300 soldiers of the RWF defended the Muslim town of Gorazde against the Serbian army.

In the battle that ensued (hushed up by the UK govt). They were awarded
One Distinguished Service Order, a Conspicuous Gallantry Cross, three Military Crosses, seven Mentions in Despatches and two Queen's Commendations for Valuable Service.

The most amount of commendations awarded ever to a single unit during “peacetime”.

As you can imagine it was a pretty hairy situation. For my part I was part of the rescue plan to evacuate them, however I will let you read the story for yourselves it’s s truly remarkable tale.

Oh and SF were involved so keeping it on topic!

 

[Seathestars]

On a ship years ago and we went to pick up a few SBS from South Georgia, we were taking them to the Falklands. It was years after the war.
They were in the bar on the ship and the music got louder and louder as the day wore on.
By the night time they were hammered and very rowdy.

I remember the Captain of our ship saying in his posh voice, ‘good Lord, these people are out of control’ then he asked someone to go to the bar and ask them to keep the noise down.
The lad he asked looked at the Captain and replied ‘with respect Sir I’d rather not’
We laughed about that for days.
As it happens we had a few beers with them that night, they were cool, all a bit crazy but respectful when we told them people were trying to sleep.

I remember one in particular, really posh lad he was. Showed me loads of pictures of his best mate, his dog. It was a little Westy. I remember thinking about some of those people who walk around with pit bulls thinking they’re dead hard, and here’s this hard as nails nut case walking around with his Westy who he absolutely adored.