Responsibility

[Woolverhampton_Blue]

During the build up to the North East derby, Souness said that players these days don't take responsibility for bad results. He claims that it all too often gets blamed on tactics, subs, preparation, etc. In light of our current situation I found this interesting.

Do you agree? Are players too happy just to clock in, clock out and collect their wages? Should a manager ultimately take the blame? To what extent do things like tactics make a difference?

 

[roydo]

Moved to World Football otherwise just another Martinez thread.

 

[ianefc]

Is that Souness the complete failure of a manager?

 

[Tubey]

Yeah I noted this too. Souness talked a bit of sense.

I can buy it in the context of a team just being sent out to battle, which is what you'd expect in a derby or if you're limited technically and fighting for survival.

However, what I see at Everton personally is that the players are generally playing to instruction, so the blame lies largely with the manager for me.

Look at Martinez yesterday - for the very first time he said we were poor, because it was legitimately the first time the players looked like they weren't arsed. On every other occasion, it has rarely looked like the players haven't put the effort in - just that it's misguided effort in a broken system.

If Everton brought in a Moyes-esque manager tomorrow, we'd probably get results quickly in the short term - probably look really good. The argument, however, is that if Martinez's dream scenario of the perfect football team can develop, is it worth persisting through the crap results offered up to the fans in the interim?

For me, no, it isn't, because I don't believe he has the capability to realise his dream. Any fan of football wants to play a stylish way; Martinez isn't unique in that. The difference is having the talent to turn that dream into reality.

 

[Woolverhampton_Blue]

Is that Souness the complete failure of a manager?

Yeah that's the one.

Was it his fault though?

 

[Donald Twain]

Players who don't put a shift in should be held accountable more, easy to have an off day and things don't go right for you, but to not give 100% is not on regardless of instructions tactics and the manager's face or whatever! There were 4 or 5 yesterday who didn't give a flyer and were clearly not giving their all , I'd fine them.

 

[ianefc]

Yeah that's the one.

Was it his fault though?

Yep. He's worked with different standards of players and took over clubs at different standards with different expectations, he only really did well at Blackburn.

 

[degsy]

does talk the odd bit of sense...which is more than you can say for most of them

 

[Woolverhampton_Blue]

Players who don't put a shift in should be held accountable more, easy to have an off day and things don't go right for you, but to not give 100% is not on regardless of instructions tactics and the manager's face or whatever! There were 4 or 5 yesterday who didn't give a flyer and were clearly not giving their all , I'd fine them.

I watched yesterday's game and it seemed that players just weren't sure what to do when we didn't have possession. That for me is the managers fault. Only player I noticed that really didn't put in their usual level of work was Besic.

When Mourinho was near the end at Chelsea those players really looked like they didn't care, I wouldn't say our lads are that bad yet.

 

[Donald Twain]

I watched yesterday's game and it seemed that players just weren't sure what to do when we didn't have possession. That for me is the managers fault. Only player I noticed that really didn't put in their usual level of work was Besic.

When Mourinho was near the end at Chelsea those players really looked like they didn't care, I wouldn't say our lads are that bad yet.

A few were clearly going through the motions to me, sure they were closing down , running about and tackling making it look like they're trying, but it was all half arsed, you can spot it from a mile away.

 

[Woolverhampton_Blue]

A few were clearly going through the motions to me, sure they were closing down , running about and tackling making it look like they're trying, but it was all half arsed, you can spot it from a mile away.

Had you noticed it before yesterday? Or was Arsenal the first time?

Even if they are fed up, they should put 100% in to every game.

 

[Tubey]

Had you noticed it before yesterday? Or was Arsenal the first time?

Even if they are fed up, they should put 100% in to every game.

Arsenal was the first time I felt I could legitimately blame the players for the performance, and to an extent the result.

 

[Eggs]

.....I don't boo, I don't sing and I don't shout when I go to the match but I do get goosebumps at Z Cars and jump up when we score.

 

[Woolverhampton_Blue]

Arsenal was the first time I felt I could legitimately blame the players for the performance, and to an extent the result.

Worst offenders in your opinion? I only noticed Besic putting in a lot less effort than I'd expect from him.

I notice lots of times that a player will leave his position to press the opposition player who has the ball, but the rest of the team stay in position ball watching rather than tracking the movement of opposition players around them. Just seems to lead to big gaps for the other side to exploit. In my opinion this is down to poor coaching or instruction of the team as a defensive unit rather than individuals.

 

[Woolverhampton_Blue]

.....I don't boo, I don't sing and I don't shout when I go to the match but I do get goosebumps at Z Cars and jump up when we score.

How often do you go the game mate?