Public/private life

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Dell Boy

Dell Boy

Player Valuation: £35m
Not another debate on the mollycoddled public sector workforce in the UK but....

Can racism/sexism ever be acceptable? Or at least not criminal or reason to be dismissed from employment?

To be clear I hate any form of intolerance but equally I feel an adult has a right to do what the hell they want in the privacy of their own lives - or with other consenting adults.

So for expample prostitution (with safeguards) is something I think should be legalised when between two adults.

The racism/sexism angle comes in when say a person sends a racist/sexist text to a friend. The recipient is a willing reader but somehow the text gets to be read by a third party.

Whilst racism/sexism is of course wrong does it trump a persons right to a private life?

This issue has sparked up in my life where one employee has made a formal complaint against another and part of the case is unsavoury jokes being sent back when they were friends. I've called in HR so won't be dealing with it personally but I just find it a fascinating issue.

In this instance the phones used to send a text was a private phone although there was/is an allowance for calls. Bit of a grey area it seems.

Thoughts?
 

Very relevant discussion given the Malky Mackay debacle.

My view would be that if the 'jokes' were sent on private and not company phones, then it's nothing to do with the business, irrespective of the fact that you cover business calls via expnse claims.

The time lag between the alleged incident to the employee raising it as part of a seemingly larger issue against a former friend and current colleague, smacks of vindictiveness and personally I'd dismiss it as being irrelevant on those grounds.
 
Its such a difficult grey area. Racism is something i deplore in this society and it is rife. My flatmate is from sierra leone and suffers racism constantly - not overtly but you can see it - not being allowed in clubs, taxi not stopping etc.. But then i joke with my Bengali friend - we both joke about our cultures which some people would take offence to and consider racist but does in fact cement our friendship and break barriers. I then used the phrase 'chinese whispers' the other day which someone said i should avoid saying in the office. My Jamaican pal had to split with his long term girlfriend because her hindi parents wouldnt recognise him due to his caste. Same with my african mate who was with a greek girl. I dont think this helps you in any way but thought i would get it off my chest.
 
I have a feeling I 'started' this discussion.

A private conversation is a private conversation and should be immune to prosecution (unless conspiring to commit a crime.)

Much in the same way I can use the f word as much as I want, but if I start shouting it around in the street then I am liable to be arrested under section 5 of the public order act.
 

I think it very much depends. If you have a multicultural workplace for instance, is it realistic to believe that a person who is racist at home will turn that off when they come in to work?

With the McKay situation for instance, he was making jokes about players he was signing and other professionals he had to deal with. Ok, he did it supposedly in private, but was he really able to separate those feelings when he actually dealt with those people?
 
When it's related to your work and your employees/work colleagues, I don't think there is such a thing as a private opinion, in essence you will be harbouring those thoughts whilst at work, to voice them at any level is poor, especially in such a high position.

If his thoughts were about religion, current affairs, hell even sexist or racist views, I'd be disappointed to see them used against someone's profession, free speech should allow you that much, but not if it has a negative follow on effect to your employer.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
I think it very much depends. If you have a multicultural workplace for instance, is it realistic to believe that a person who is racist at home will turn that off when they come in to work?

With the McKay situation for instance, he was making jokes about players he was signing and other professionals he had to deal with. Ok, he did it supposedly in private, but was he really able to separate those feelings when he actually dealt with those people?
Click to expand...

I don't agree at all. What people choose to believe is up to them, taking your logic there anyone who was a member of a right wing party could be deemed to be unsuitable to work in an environment where there was a mix of ethnic backgrounds, which is unaceptable.

We can only judge people on what they do in or in direct contact with - the workplace imo, with the caveat to that being those who transgress the law of the land.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
I think it very much depends. If you have a multicultural workplace for instance, is it realistic to believe that a person who is racist at home will turn that off when they come in to work?

With the McKay situation for instance, he was making jokes about players he was signing and other professionals he had to deal with. Ok, he did it supposedly in private, but was he really able to separate those feelings when he actually dealt with those people?
Click to expand...

What if it was light-heated though? Do we know the context/mindset?

I've told racist jokes before. An Englishman, Irishman, Scotsman joke is technically racist. I've told loads of them though. Does that make me a racist?

I can tell you now that it doesn't. I've never treated an Irishman with prejudice.
 

Foot Long Hot Dog said:
I don't agree at all. What people choose to believe is up to them, taking your logic there anyone who was a member of a right wing party could be deemed to be unsuitable to work in an environment where there was a mix of ethnic backgrounds, which is unaceptable.

We can only judge people on what they do in or in direct contact with - the workplace imo, with the caveat to that being those who transgress the law of the land.
Click to expand...

It's not always as simple as that though is it? The vast majority of discrimination is quite subtle, and not always easy to detect.
 
roydo said:
It is safest to assume that anything you say on email, twitter, Fb etc etc is actually not private.
Click to expand...

Is that right or wrong though? I personally think on the whole it's awful and there has to be a line drawn over what is public and what is private.
 
The general advice we give to employees is that conversations and written communications of a personal nature between 2 or more employees even when those collegues are personal friends, should maintain the standards expected in work related communications.

This reduces the possibility of DB's situation but does not entirely negate it. It does of course give the company a slightly stronger position in any disagreement.

The safest assumption any individual can make though is that there is no such thing as private communications by text, email or any other form of electronic and written communication.
 
It's all about context. That's the whole problem, you and your mates know what type of banter you have, somebody reading it can't distinguish the context you mean it in.

Most stand up comedians say stuff close to the bone but contextually you know they are just taking the pee. If you didn't know who they were and were reading rather than watching a show you would take it in completely the wrong way.

As for privacy, you put things on the internet or via txt msg and it's out there. Especially social media. I think it's pathetic people get took to court etc over things they write on social media, but it's the times we live in and you post at your own risk.
 

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