6 + 2 Point Deductions

[Llyrap]

I know people are keen on the double jeopardy argument but it doesn't hold water. Every year we have to be compliant over a three year period. That means that wherever we are in a financial year we have to tailor our finances to ensure that we are complaint within that season. We were not in breach in the two years before 2022 as the breach is not based on a single year.

The Appeal board made it clear that
a) we knew that the PSR calculations we gave were wrong and accordingly we knew that we were £20 million over. Rabinowitz described it as a "pitch".
b) the minimum points deduction for the breach was 6 points.

Our losses for PSR appear to be £55 million and £10 million. That means that our losses for 2023 season would have to be less than £40 million. Clearly the Premier League do not think that this is the case.

We are therefore at risk of a further 6 points although this penalty and a) above will be aggravating features.

Lets hope therefore that

1) We are not in breach.
2) It is small.
3) That we are at least 6-9 above the relegation zone at the end of the season.

 

[chicoazul]

Seen that guy on twitter, very sad what happens to some of us in middle age, hope he finds solace soon

He runs there like he runs here.

You mice will never know such power.

 

[Swagger]

I think this appeal will be used as a precedent going forward

They have definitely used the EFL punishments as a guide. We can only hope they also use the double punishment part of it for our second hearing.

And if the maximum is 12 points with a sliding scale based on the millions breached reducing the 12 points then Forest could be looking at the full 12 points if the amount they breached is as high as claimed by some sources

 

[trueblue84]

Just listened to Kieran Maguire and his take on the second lot of charges.
He's saying that a big dollop of double jeopardy, a bit more knowledge by the PL on how the first lot played out, and the apparent fact that these charges cover two of the three years we've already been punished for, then a minimal points deduction or suspended sentence the likely outcome.

I don't think you can give a suspended sentence when you've already committed a previous breach and been punished for it. Second offence will be at least equivalent to the first charge. The double jeopardy route seems to be the only viable route we have to fight our corner.

 

[Titus Bramble]

Correct me if I’m being dim, but if we’ve already been punished for 3 years, then the latest accounts (the one relating to the second charge) should be the start of a new 3 year cycle? So we’d still be allowed to make a loss? Doesn’t the EFL State that once a club is punished for psr/ffp then the cycle starts again as the club cannot be punished twice due to double jeapordy? I hope that makes sense.

Edit: I only use efl as appeal commission used them as a benchmark.

No mate.

Our first breach (the one we've just heard back from appeal) used Year1, Year2 and Year3.

For our next (supposed breach), Year1 will drop off and be replaced by Year4: Year2, Year3 and Year4.

If our Year4 accounts are healthier than our Year1 accounts were, then our breach would be less in terms of £.

 

[matty1878]

Club had this last Monday, so they did hit the mid February deadline. Amazing that nothing leaked

i’m hoping as others have said we’ve took it even tho it’s a disgrace that they know the second is legged

could this be the 777 hold up or other bidders?

 

[Strumpet]

Thanks for that. So, in summary, for the next charges, it's unlikely that any mitigation will be accepted from either us or Forest. They will use the EFL guidelines on how many points to deduct from each club. So, whether we get more or less than Forest could depend on exactly how much each club went over the limit.

I'm still trying to get an idea from someone as to how much our losses were for 22/23. If I understand the report correctly 19/20/21 were £55m, £55m and £9m. So with 19 dropping off we have to have a loss of over £41m for us to have breached. The Esk (yes I know) was adamant we hadn't gone over that but obviously the PL say otherwise. Some of the previous points we made such as Ukraine war "could" be allowed as mitigation this time as the effects would have been seen during 22/23 season.

I have a feeling we will could get another 6 points and Forest get the same. This puts them below us on current league standings. Depends on the view of the IC on double counting and that's not clear from the report.

 

[Victus]

I know people are keen on the double jeopardy argument but it doesn't hold water. Every year we have to be compliant over a three year period. That means that wherever we are in a financial year we have to tailor our finances to ensure that we are complaint within that season. We were not in breach in the two years before 2022 as the breach is not based on a single year.

The Appeal board made it clear that
a) we knew that the PSR calculations we gave were wrong and accordingly we knew that we were £20 million over. Rabinowitz described it as a "pitch".
b) the minimum points deduction for the breach was 6 points.

Our losses for PSR appear to be £55 million and £10 million. That means that our losses for 2023 season would have to be less than £40 million. Clearly the Premier League do not think that this is the case.

We are therefore at risk of a further 6 points although this penalty and a) above will be aggravating features.

Lets hope therefore that

1) We are not in breach.
2) It is small.
3) That we are at least 6-9 above the relegation zone at the end of the season.

When they are taking inspiration from the EFL for charges, then double jeopardy does have relevance as it isn't enforced in that league. If they are picking and choosing what they are taking inspiration from which parts of the EFL handbook for PSR, I'd argue that's extremely mishandled.

 

[Ralphie Boy]

Whilst the six points is disappointing, we have knocked the shoite off the headlines.

 

[Swagger]

so we get 12 overall and they get 6? no

Who knows but my point being most Forest fans seem to think they will only get 3 points deducted.

I think Forest will be given the full 12 point deduction.

I don't know if Everton will be given another 6 points.

 

[Nymzee]

No blue tick tho

He's unemployed, can't pay for any ticks

 

[matty1878]

I don't think you can give a suspended sentence when you've already committed a previous breach and been punished for it. Second offence will be at least equivalent to the first charge. The double jeopardy route seems to be the only viable route we have to fight our corner.

no you can’t do another deduction when they have if they knew there were guna they would just held this

 

[Tin-Tin]

Assuming we are doing the same?

 

[Nymzee]

If only we could harness your talents in a useful way cheeks

 

[Strumpet]

If Forest now only get 6 points, given that their breach is supposed to be a hell of a lot larger than ours, I wonder what Everton’s reaction will be to that?

I don't think we'll be able to say too much since we argued that no punishment should be greater than 9 points. Common sense suggests it'll be between 6 and 8.